Is there a perfect shul

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Maya

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 1:55 pm

Aish Kodesh is a wonderful shul.

Ruchel

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 2:44 pm

Shul is *also* about community. People will talk, especially women who don't have the same "must" as men. Of course they should allow others to follow.

I often notice the first row is young single girls, very intense, back from foreign countries, who daven standing and doing the steps etc "like guys"

The last row is those really not caring and noisy

In the middle is... the middle LOL

I prefer the middle.

Among men there's also a last row sometimes they don't even throw a tarmulka on... but much less talking as a whole.

LittleDucky

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 3:13 pm

I have found that the friendlier the shul is, whether it has programs, weekly kiddush, a kids minyan/groups, a Purim party etc- the more likely it will have talking or kids making noise. I belong to a shul (with some of the programs I mention) that doesn't usually have a big talking issue but you do get kids running in, crying etc. but at least the adults (mostly, there are a few who talk week in and out-grr) are quiet, which helps (I hope) to serve as role models.
I used to go to a place (moved for many many reasons) that was silent. No kids talking, no crying, nothing. You only brought your kids when they can be silent. It also had no programs, not a warm place, and women didn't usually just come for the end. Loved davening there Pre-kids but it isn't a family place. It was a better davening but not a great "community". I don't think I would have gotten as many "post baby meals" as I did had we stayed. We definitely weren't extended shabbos invitations-people just kept to their crowd and it was hard to break in.
Much happier where I am but there will always be "that one thing" you wished changed.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 4:09 pm

Maya wrote:

I hear in Teaneck there is a place that demands absolutely no talking during davening. They supposedly advertise as the "quiet shul."

Which one? I live here and haven't heard of it.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 4:47 pm

what's perfect for one person isn't so perfect for the next person.

we found a WONDERFUL small shul in the 5 towns. on the small side. no talking during davening. nice ehrlich down to earth people.
the drawback? no kid's program.

amother

Ruby

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 5:16 pm

amother wrote:

add to that- says hello to people after shul... where I live I can think of a shul like what the op described but my dh finds it incredibly "cold" and has no interest in davening in such a place.... when I was in Monsey I davened at a little shteibel type place near albert drive where I didn't hear talking during shul but everyone was very friendly afterwards... I also liked a shul in KGH's where the Rabbi! came over to me to say welcome. I do think they exist....

I live in Passaic. My dh davens at such a shul as op describes and yet it is EXTREMELY cold and not welcoming. It's sterile. very frustrating and makes your family not enjoy going to Shul. If you ask me warmth and acceptance and approachability is so very important.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 5:45 pm

IMHO, there is no such thing as a "perfect" shul, because there is no such thing as a perfect person. Human beings are flawed, and you can't judge Judaism by the Jews.

Only Hashem and His torah are perfect, and the best we can do is try to live up to it.

Some shuls are definitely better than others, but "perfect" is never going to happen until Moshiach comes.

ruby slippers

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:25 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I prefer the middle.

Among men there's also a last row sometimes they don't even throw a tarmulka on... but much less talking as a whole.

I find all of these answers so interesting. I like the middle row theory.
What I find and hearing from dh in our community the men are doing more of the talking than the women and so it is extra frustrating for dh. I find the women's section for the most part pretty quiet. There was one time I was next to the mechitzah for kabbalat shabbat and I was sooo tempted to tell the men schmoozing to be quiet. they were speaking loud enough I could hear the whole conversation. But who am I to ask them to be quiet. would any of you have? Would I have been out of place to say- excuse me can you quiet down- can't do the shushuing thing, that drives me nuts

ruby slippers

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:27 pm

Any shuls in Israel that don't experience this kind of talking or other countries- just wondering if its a USA thing. it's sad so many people find this as frustrating as I.

imasoftov

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:38 pm

Different strokes for different folks ...

amother

Pink

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 7:47 pm

There are Shuls like Emunas Yisrael in BP and other Chassidishe Minyanim in BP, with extremely inspiring davening, where every word is offered with Hislahavus and Kavana, with beautiful chilling Tefila, but if you dont walk the walk or talk the talk (if you look different than most), youll get strange "why did you come, what are you doing here" stares, unless youre a guest of one of the families that daven there. Otherwise at best youll get a polite hello.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:27 pm

amother wrote:

in woodmere there is aish kodesh-I know someone who moved there for that shul- which supposedly makes a point of no talking, never been there t hough. Seriously though op- do you plan to move based on this thread or just want to know that such shuls exist?

op here- I a little of both.

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:37 pm

In my in-laws shul, where my husband grew up, they announce "if you are talking, you don't belong in shul". So my husband doesn't go anymore.

amother

Oak

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:52 pm

eema1 wrote:

That's funny- I have noticed it in the younger crowd, it is especially driving me batty to see fathers of newborns wheeling their strollers into shul (literally in the sanctary!) as well as toddlers being brought in by fathers. I get bringing them in for the end of davening where there is singing etc. but why are coming with them for shacharis??? It is unfair to the child to ask them to stay quiet that long when adults can't even do it.
It was a bad shul week last week ands its so frustrating. You want to say something, but are hoping the leadership of the shul does it, because what is going to come out of my mouth will not be good.

I see this completely differently. I think it's wonderful that these fathers are taking such an active role and teaching their children to enjoy shul.

My grandfather used to say that if you want to pray in perfect silence, go pray in the cemetery. Because in 100 years that's where your shul will be. If we prioritize silence over children, the children won't feel comfortable and won't come, and in 2 generations the shul will be empty.

I was one of those kids who got shushed out of shul all the time. Most of the other kids who I grew up with also got shushed out and most aren't religious today and quite a few have intermarried. These were the children of very frum people.

But the tefilla was really inspiring, and everyone could hear every word.

Furthermore, when I was a young child a 5 or 6 year old girl I knew was shushed out and sent to youth groups and while walking in the hall was jumped by a man. All the other adults were davenning and she didn't know what to do. He knew kids would be sent out regularly and he stalked the halls with candy for years before he was thrown out of that shul.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:53 pm

wow! That is powerful. I hope your husband wasn't totally turned off by that- I guess that is the fine line one walks with that. We suggested to our rav, since we all know who the talkers are, to speak to them privately and see if that would work. For some reason he was not keen on the idea.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 9:56 pm

amother wrote:

I see this completely differently. I think it's wonderful that these fathers are taking such an active role and teaching their children to enjoy shul.
.

Furthermore, when I was a young child a 5 or 6 year old girl I knew was shushed out and sent to youth groups and while walking in the hall was jumped by a man. All the other adults were davenning and she didn't know what to do. He knew kids would be sent out regularly and he stalked the halls with candy for years before he was thrown out of that shul.

I am not talking about 5 and 6 year olds- they are bringing 2 and 3 year olds so that Mom can sleep in. I think that if mom needs help at home it is better for him to stay at home with the child than disturb the shul- its really not fair to the toddler either.

cfriedman2

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 12:51 am

I love my Shul in Baltimore- suburban orthodox. Yes there's talking but I sit away from it bc I go to Shul to daven and socialize at the kiddush afterwards. The rabbi (rabbi Silber) is great also

saw50st8

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 7:39 am

amother wrote:

Which one? I live here and haven't heard of it.

I believe it's called Zichron Mordechai. I've never been there.

Ruchel

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 7:51 am

Oh and yes, a kehila cannot be both anti kids and pro natality. I said so, bluntly,to various people. Kids bring bracha, I notice it even to shops etc who aren't accomodating.... they don't last long.

water_bear88

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 8:01 am

There's a big difference between kids making a certain level of noise and adults talking nonstop.

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