Whats your take on prison sentencing and serving?

Raisin

Sun, May 03 2015, 6:25 am

I think the whole justice system is pretty corrupt. Wealthy people who can hire good lawyers get off relatively lightly in many cases, poor people with bad lawyers get heavy sentences.

There are very heavy sentences given for very minor drug related crimes.

Putting a young person in prison for a minor crime is more likely to set them up for a life of crime.

I am not against serial rapists, pedophiles, murderers being put in prison.

I don't know how I would change things, but looking at good practices that work in other countries is a good start.

mommy3b2c

Sun, May 03 2015, 8:04 am

imasoftov wrote:

The OP wrote "if someone breaks the law as a white collar crime, fine the pants off of him and make him repent"

You do understand that white collar crime has nothing to do with the color of your skin? A black or Hispanic or Asian person can also commit a white collar crime. And they also should not be thrown in a max security with rapists and murderers. You are so busy accusing everyone of being racist, I don't think you even realize what you wrote.

amother

Beige

Sun, May 03 2015, 8:06 am

IMO white collar criminals do need to be locked up, although putting them with murderers and terrorists is not a good idea. Have separate facilities.
Imagine that you got scammed out of your life's savings by one of these so called "frum" people. Would you be happy if they were just fined and that was it? The money that you will get back is nowhere near the amount that this "frum," upstanding Lakewood Yid scammed from you, because he already spent it/has it hiding away, inaccessible from the Feds. And if it's just a fine that is needed, this fellow can get the $ from his wealthy friend who was in cahoots with him or some family members who are desperate to save face.
No, These people MUST serve time. Let them be embarrassed. They deserve it.

33055

Sun, May 03 2015, 8:33 am

amother wrote:

The problem worth this is you will necessarily end up with racially segregated prisons.

Talya

Sun, May 03 2015, 8:33 am

White collar crimes are financially motivated non violent crimes. Nothing to do with skin color.

I think there is a difference in white collar crimes as well. Someone lying ever so slightly about their income on a mortgage application for a mortgage that they can and continue to pay regularly is very different than someone like Bernie Madoff who hurt many people. The first shouldn't need jail time. A fine should teach them their lesson but no fine will change the damage that Bernie Madoff cause that can't be undone.

33055

Sun, May 03 2015, 8:40 am

Talya wrote:

They don't prosecute if you pay your mortgage unless they want you for something else.

The reason the prisons will end up segregated is because more white people commit white collar non violent crime and the minorities tend to commit the more violent crime. First federal court case you would be back to integrated prisons.

the world's best mom

Sun, May 03 2015, 9:34 am

IMO, anyone who commits a violent crime should be locked up forever. I never want to meet them on the streets, even if they've served a ten year sentence or whatever it was. They are not safe ever. And that's regardless of skin color.

I'm not as sure what to do with white collar criminals, but serving 30 years among murderers is definitely way too much.

sequoia

Sun, May 03 2015, 10:16 am

amother wrote:

Exactly.

This person I know took desperate people's money and used it to finance his lavish lifestyle. He is not sorry. He is also a Putin apologist. Probably thinks Putin can get him out of prison.

Amarante

Sun, May 03 2015, 10:35 am

There is no reason that people who break the law should not be sent to prison. If anything, fraud based on pure greed is worse than a lot of what people are locked up for like drug possession. Decriminalize narcotics and put money into improving schools and programs that actually help addiction and lots of street crime would be eliminated - and improve schools so that people feel that they have the ability to live a decent life - give people hope.

But prison exists for three reasons - punishment, rehabilitation and as a deterrent to others. I am not sure that white collar criminals need rehabilitation because many of them had options and privileges that would have enabled them to live a decent honest life if they weren't so greedy. However, they deserve to be punished and certainly they NEED TO BE MADE AN EXAMPLE OF so that other people aren't tempted.

I think fear of prison doing significant time is MUCH more of a deterrent to white collar criminals than any fine would be. Most of the smart ones have hidden assets and so they figure that if they are fined, they will have plenty left over after paying the fine.

At least in the Federal prison system, white collar criminals are not kept in the same facilities as those criminals who are considered to be high risk. But still prison is prison and even the so-call Club Fed prisons are still an unpleasant way to spend years of one's life.

Talya

Sun, May 03 2015, 10:44 am

Amarante wrote:

I wouldn't call wanting to put a roof over your head or food in your kids mouth greed. Sometimes people feel the only way to do that is to put little white lies on forms so they are eligible for things like lower rate mortgages. It's hard to be in a place where you are not eligible for government assistance but barely making enough to scrape by. I'm not saying it's not illegal and should not be done but I wouldn't call it greed. Fining such people is hardship enough. Jailing them basically guarantees no future employment and forever living off taxpayer dollars.

Amarante

Sun, May 03 2015, 10:56 am

Talya wrote:

People who lie on ONE mortgage application are not generally sent to prison so I don't think that is what anyone is talking about. Do you know of someone who was sent to prison for lying on ONE mortgage application.

In general when people talk about white collar crime and those sent to prison, it is the mortgage broker who handles dozens or hundreds of fraudulent loan applications and helps people to lie and cheat the system. It's the same as the difference between someone who smokes pot (a user) and someone who sells pot (a dealer). The user isn't sent to prison but the dealer would be.

And lots of "little" people lying on their mortgage applications to buy homes they couldn't afford was one of the reasons the economy almost collapsed so actions shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. As my parents would tell me (over and over again Very Happy

) - If your best friend jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you follow her?

m in Israel

Sun, May 03 2015, 11:01 am

Amarante wrote:

I think fear of prison doing significant time is MUCH more of a deterrent to white collar criminals than any fine would be. Most of the smart ones have hidden assets and so they figure that if they are fined, they will have plenty left over after paying the fine.

.

This. The punishment needs to be severe enough that the chance of getting caught is enough of a deterrent to prevent people from committing those crimes. If someone is considering developing a fraud scheme that will earn him millions of dollars of unlawful profit and the only thing that would happen to him if he gets caught is he has to give the money back and pay a fine, well, the gain may very well justify the potential risk. If he knows that if he is caught he will end up in prison, that is much more of a deterrent.

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, May 03 2015, 11:13 am

m in Israel wrote:

Actually they have done studies on this. Neither the severity of the punishment or what the punishment was prison/parole/fines/probation had any effect on deterring crime. The sole effect was the swiftness of the punishment to the crime.

gp2.0

Sun, May 03 2015, 11:24 am

yenny wrote:

Actually according to the Torah there is no basis to jail. Jail doesn't seem to do any good. For anyone.

Ir Miklat was not so dissimilar to jail. Family members were within rights to kill someone if they killed a member of their family by ACCIDENT. This person who committed an involuntary crime had to pack up his entire life and run to the ir Miklat and never leave or risk death. So that's a life sentence for manslaughter - murder by mistake.