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seeker

Mon, May 04 2015, 5:43 pm

ora_43 wrote:

... no?

Why would it be unsafe for a child to say "hi" to someone when their mother is right there next to them? Is the idea that if they learn to not ignore people they don't know, they'll be more likely to go along with an abductor if their mother isn't there? I'm not convinced that follows.

If anything I think it might be safer to teach kids to be friendly to strangers, but not to go away with them. Because if chv"s they are in a bad situation, the other adults nearby - the ones who might be in a position to help - might also be strangers. You don't want your kid so convinced strangers are bad that they wouldn't seek help.

And also because it's not realistic to expect kids to never talk to strangers. My kid's preschool teacher was a stranger just a few months ago. It could confuse them to tell them not to talk to strangers, while expecting them to talk to the "good" strangers, ie, people we the parents don't view as strangers.

And also because we all have to start being civil to strangers at some point, while still being cautious. So better to start teaching kids how to walk that line sooner rather than later. JMHO.

I'm not trying to argue you out of your opinion. Just arguing on behalf of all the many people who are a part of "everyone," but don't think it's bad to be friendly to small children. To be honest in my neighborhood I doubt it would occur to a single person that talking to a child might be a bad thing to do.

I teach my kids about different levels of relationships/interactions, e.g. that there is a difference between someone you're passing on the street and literally have nothing to do with, and someone like a store employee who is not a friend but is a helper. The preschool teacher is not a stranger once mother has introduced them.

I don't think "hi" is unsafe. I think it is inappropriate when these strangers (yes, they are) ask kids questions such as their name and age in an elevator-type encounter. Even with mom there. They address the kids directly and ask for personal information. I don't think that's appropriate. It's not at all the same as saying "Why hello Mrs. Adult Neighbor! Such adorable children! How old are they?" No, it's "hello cute little child, how old are you?" I find it creepy. You can disagree if you want.

zaq

Mon, May 04 2015, 6:01 pm

seeker wrote:

No, it's "hello cute little child, how old are you?" I find it creepy. You can disagree if you want.

I will disagree. It's treating the child as a person in his own right and not a thing. Do you appreciate other people talking about you in third person when you are right there? Neither do children.

Neighbors from the building whom you meet in the elevator? No prob, usually. (You have to listen to your gut if somebody in particular gives you the creeps, in which case why aren't you pushing the elevator button and getting off at the next floor? ) OTOH total strangers you don't know from Adam, in line at the supermarket or on the bus, completely different scenario, inappropriate and something to be wary of.

seeker

Mon, May 04 2015, 6:11 pm

zaq wrote:

Well like I said we live in a very dense urban area, we have literally about 1000 neighbors sharing the same elevators (1000 is assuming an average of 2.3 people per apartment. Then there are delivery people, guests, workers, and other random people coming and going) so yes I consider someone I meet in the elevator whom I don't know a stranger, at least as far as my children are concerned. I have no objection to talking to the child in their own right if you're going to say "Can you please press 18 for me? Thank you." or "Have a good day." but asking for their name and age, I dunno. That's already getting nosy. And may I add I have never had this experience with another mom of children. No mom of children has ever asked questions of my children in the elevator/building hallways/public areas. They address them respectfully with things like excuse me, thank you, and the occasional something like "nice bike!" or "don't worry about the dog, she's gentle."

seeker

Mon, May 04 2015, 6:13 pm

Also, I have no issue at all with another kid coming over and being friendly with my kids. If they live around here we are likely to meet up often in the park and may as well know each other's names. And none of them are going anywhere without adult supervision anyway. My objection is to isolated adults approaching children they have nothing to do with AND asking them questions about themselves.

SRS

Mon, May 04 2015, 6:19 pm

This video is fear mongering at its finest. There are very few abductions from strangers annually. The "facts" in this video are overstated. If 700 children were being abducted daily, you would know of multiple abductions.

gp2.0

Mon, May 04 2015, 6:44 pm

SRS wrote:

An average of 14 per US state doesn't seem overstated. Especially considering that many abductions are by the child's parent, when they do not have custody.

The thing is, child abductions are often by someone the child vaguely knows and recognizes. So if you teach your kids to fear complete strangers but slightly trust all your neighbors, you're in the same sinking boat.

FranticFrummie

Mon, May 04 2015, 9:58 pm

http://www.freerangekids.com/o.....97345

This pseudo-helpful video, posted Saturday, is viral in every sense of the word. It already has nearly a million views, which means that people are sharing it like crazy, convinced that its creator, Joey Salads, is doing something other than creating terror, angst and hate with his Stranger Danger “social experiment.”

But he’s not.

As you’ll see, Mr. Salads asks parents if they’ve taught their kids not to talk to strangers — a lesson I don’t endorse, since most strangers are good and you want kids to feel confident asking strangers for help, if they need it. “You can TALK to anyone, you cannot go OFF with anyone,” is the advice I prefer. Anyway, here’s the piece:

(video was inserted here)

Mr. Salads proceeds to startle the parents by showing them that their kids DO talk to strangers. He does this by going up to very young kids (kids so young they would normally not be at the park unsupervised) and asking them if they want to meet his puppies. Some go off with him.

Not addressed are a few salient facts, including the biggie: Isn’t it more than likely that these kids feel fine going off with this man because they just saw him talking to their mom? What’s more, their mom is right there! If she didn’t want them going off, she’d intervene.

After this bizarre scenario that he calls an experiment — without ever telling us how many kids he approached who did not go off with him — he says 700 kids are abducted a day, presumably by the type of person he’s warning us about: a “stranger.”

Which is interesting, as the U.S. Dept. of Justice puts the number of children abducted by strangers at 115 a year.

He says 255,550 a year. The crime stats say 115 a year.

If 700 kids actually were taken by strangers on a daily basis, that would be closing in on 1% of all kids under age 9. So if you sent your kid to a grammar school with 500 kids, by fifth grade your child would have witnessed 25 kids — a classroom full — kidnapped the way they are on “Law & Order.”

But the story of how easily a child can be lead to his doom is one that TV can’t get enough of. Here is almost the exact same “experiment,” on Headline News. As I said then:

A show that “tests” whether kids can be lured to a car with the promise of a puppy — the premise of this show — makes it seem as if this is a situation kids could very likely be faced with, something on par with, “Would your kids eat a cookie if someone offered it?” What is so hard to understand is that, first of all, the vast majority of crimes against children are committed NOT be strangers they meet at the park , but by people they know. So it is bizarre to keep acting as if the park is teaming with danger.

But this scary, misleading message just seems to be one that everyone loves to share, as if it’s a public service.

As if parents just aren’t worried enough yet.

As if kids have just way too much unsupervised time outside.

Thanks, Mr. Salads. You have emptied the parks, locked children inside, and frozen parents’ hearts, with a big lie.

And a cute puppy. – L

gp2.0

Mon, May 04 2015, 10:19 pm

(Lol I see I misread the numbers earlier, I was assuming 700 a year, not daily...)

http://www.missingkids.com/en_.....3.pdf

This says there were 10,094 case reports of missing children in 2013. That's about 27 kids per day throughout the US. Though this includes runaways as well as children abducted by relatives.

chatz

Mon, May 04 2015, 10:41 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

Realistically or statistically speaking, how many young children are abducted (or attempted abduction) by total strangers? Not teens, not noncustodial parents running off with their biological child.

gp2.0

Mon, May 04 2015, 11:00 pm

chatz wrote:

Realistically or statistically speaking, how many young children are abducted (or attempted abduction) by total strangers? Not teens, not noncustodial parents running off with their biological child.

A relatively small amount.

I consider myself a free-range parent, and I am more scared of (and have spent more time drilling my child about) traffic accidents than abduction.

lovingmother

Mon, May 04 2015, 11:24 pm

I don't think the statistics matter one bit. Who cares if it was one child abducted per year, you wouldn't want it to be your child Ch"v. And there was definitely something fake about the video. You can't believe everything you see. Even though the information might be true, the video was too fake.

smss

Mon, May 04 2015, 11:42 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

As you’ll see, Mr. Salads asks parents if they’ve taught their kids not to talk to strangers — a lesson I don’t endorse, since most strangers are good and you want kids to feel confident asking strangers for help, if they need it. “You can TALK to anyone, you cannot go OFF with anyone,” is the advice I prefer.

I like that.

heidi

Mon, May 04 2015, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

As children, most of us were taught never to speak to strangers and never to accept candy from a stranger. However, safety experts today claim that this advice is, in fact, more confusing than helpful to children. Kids often think that strangers who may hurt them are mean-looking and disheveled. Child Safety Expert Ken Wooden insists that teaching children not to speak to strangers is, in fact, the biggest mistake parents make. "In the eyes of a kid, a stranger is a character who is a very scary and monster-type, but in reality, he [the stranger] comes across looking like a very nice guy, and very engaging," Wooden explains. Wooden has studied thousands of child abductors during his career. "The people I interviewed are not scary looking; they're friendly."

I think one fact that contributes to this misconception that strangers are scary mean-looking characters, is the fact that the very word "stranger" - sounds like the word "strange". Therefore, the concept of a stranger conjours up the image of a "strange" looking person.

Also in hebrew - "zar" is a "stranger", which sounds like "muzar" strange.

I'm pretty sure this is where kids get that image from.

In Israel stranger child abduction is nil.
But kids are warned against s-xual abuse which is very prevalent. (see several threads lately).
Just want to point out that the vast majority of s-xual abuse is by someone the child knows well or someone who looks like they fit in (reminds child of parents or siblings)

Bitachon101

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:19 am

Saw this video. It frightened me though I'm sure some was fake. The concept hit home tho that we teach our kids not to talk to strangers... Which presumably they imagine is a scary creepy looking person.
I happen to be a very friendly minded person. I don't believe you need to know someone to be friendly. Though I live in a neighborhood that does not seem to feel the same way, I always tell my son to say hello to kids and ask them their names. He sees me be friendly to ppl in parks, Jewish and non-jewish. So its hard because as much as we teach them not to speak to strangers they see mommy do it...
I talk abt safety and I always tell my son that if a stranger asks him things come get mommy first to make sure its OK.
But kids can get distracted by lures. My son would run from a puppy (no I didn't teach him that fear!) But if someone offered him candy or a prize... I want to believe he wouldn't go for it but who is to know?! We talk about that there are some bad people out there that pretend to be nice and try to give you treats so they can be mean to you but we always say no and get a mommy.
I just pray every day that Hashem keeps our kids safe. But I think parents should see the video because we need to be aware of this.

Also, I've been to city parks where random children will walk over to me, a total stranger, and start talking to me and sharing random pieces of info abt themselves and I just want to tell them "kid... You aren't supposed to talk to strangers!" But of course I don't and just smile and nod to what they say.

chani8

Tue, May 05 2015, 6:17 am

I have a child who would for sure go off with strangers, so I try not to let her out of my sight.

And, all the bad that happened to my kids was from people they knew. . . when they were not being supervised by me.

So I hold by helicopter parenting or whatever they call it. Over protectiveness. Or rather, Family Time.

abound

Tue, May 05 2015, 6:28 am

My kids are taught that they can talk to "people they don't know" (which is what I prefer to strangers) but they cannot go anywhere with anyone unless one of their parents know. Even someone we know well. (neighbor, relative, teacher etc.) If they have my permission they can go with the person, but only if they ask me first.

ora_43

Tue, May 05 2015, 6:32 am

SRS wrote:

Not necessarily. I assume they aren't just talking about kidnappings where a child is missing for hours or longer, but also about technical abductions where a child is lured away to be molested or otherwise attacked. Like, if a criminal gets a child to come into their apartment and molests them there, that's technically abduction (and definitely something parents would want to protect against). But you probably wouldn't know about it.

SRS

Tue, May 05 2015, 10:56 am

lovingmother wrote:

I don't think the statistics matter one bit. Who cares if it was one child abducted per year, you wouldn't want it to be your child Ch"v.

Actually facts do matter tremendously because without facts, fear wins each and every time.

maapse

Tue, May 05 2015, 11:17 am

I don't believe this video is real because if a stranger would come over to me in a park and tell me that he is doing a social experiment and can he do it on my kid I would say NO!

What mother could honestly see themselves answering yes to a stranger and then pointing out her kid?

I just don't believe it.

Notsobusy

Tue, May 05 2015, 11:35 am

maapse wrote:

This. Also, the mothers just sat there on the bench and watched the kid start walking away with him. If I would agree to such a thing, the second my kid took his hand I would be running, I wouldn't just sit there and watch them walk away.

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