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Moving an oven
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rentfan820




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:01 pm
We recently did construction, and I got sick shortly after movning in. Our old kitchen is now a hallway, and the new addition is our kitchen. I was told that we can't use the space where our old oven was. We have to build a 12 inch high platform there. It's going to look ridiculous. Any ideas?
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:03 pm
Is this a Judaism thing? Never heard of it. Why can't you use the space?
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:04 pm
Sorry- I'm confused as to who said you need to put a 12-inch platform there and why. Also, why is this in the Judaism forum? (Not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to understand so we can help!)
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:08 pm
Gas line that's protruding?

If so, get a plumber to deal with that issue.
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rentfan820




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:10 pm
This is my first post on this website. I wasn't sure which forum is fitting, so I thought this was a catch all. Rav Yeehuda Hachasid's will apparently said that you can't move an oven because of sheidim.
I called the Skverer's Rebbe's Gabbai today and he told me that I am not allowed to use the space where the oven used to be, and that I have to build a platform 12 inches off the ground for the entire dimensions of what the oven was. Once that is done, I can use the space on top of the platform. It's going to take up my whole hallway and look ridiculous, but if that's part of what I need to do for a refuah, I'll do it.
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:40 pm
rentfan820 wrote:
This is my first post on this website. I wasn't sure which forum is fitting, so I thought this was a catch all. Rav Yeehuda Hachasid's will apparently said that you can't move an oven because of sheidim.
I called the Skverer's Rebbe's Gabbai today and he told me that I am not allowed to use the space where the oven used to be, and that I have to build a platform 12 inches off the ground for the entire dimensions of what the oven was. Once that is done, I can use the space on top of the platform. It's going to take up my whole hallway and look ridiculous, but if that's part of what I need to do for a refuah, I'll do it.


Got it- I saw you were a new poster and hadn't said anything that seemed to be about Judaism, that's why I asked.

How high is the top of the platform? Could you hang something on it? It sounds like the top of it could work as a bookshelf or a shelf for photographs or knick-knacks.
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rentfan820




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:52 pm
the platform only has to be 12 inches high. So it will be just a step up. but it will look ridicuous if we only have it the dimensions of the oven. I might just have to raise the whole hallways floor by 12 inches instead of having to step up and then step down. My husband is indulging me, but I know he thinks it's crazy.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:57 pm
The sheidim? In the oven?

Because it's a mini-hell?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 1:58 pm
ive only ever heard this about windows and doors. if you close off a window or door, making it a solid wall, you should leave a hole (can be teeeeeeeny tiiiiiiiny) where the window door was so that any spirits that may come in wont get stuck. the only thing I can think of is that maybe they come in before the sealing off, and so have no exit.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 2:00 pm
sequoia wrote:
The sheidim? In the oven?

Because it's a mini-hell?

I think its more along the lines of they may have been in the space above/behind/below the oven? not really sure, im not into all that stuff
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water_bear88




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 2:07 pm
I would worry more about its being a tripping hazard than an eyesore if this is right in the middle of a hallway- I was imagining something set into the wall.
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 2:08 pm
rentfan820 wrote:
This is my first post on this website. I wasn't sure which forum is fitting, so I thought this was a catch all. Rav Yeehuda Hachasid's will apparently said that you can't move an oven because of sheidim.
I called the Skverer's Rebbe's Gabbai today and he told me that I am not allowed to use the space where the oven used to be, and that I have to build a platform 12 inches off the ground for the entire dimensions of what the oven was. Once that is done, I can use the space on top of the platform. It's going to take up my whole hallway and look ridiculous, but if that's part of what I need to do for a refuah, I'll do it.


Can someone tell me how this is not a superstition?
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 2:17 pm
I wish you a refuah sheleima.
I suppose you know that the stipulations in R Yehudah HeChassid's will are not generally considered binding on us today, if indeed they were ever intended for people outside his family. Perhaps the gabbai gave you specific instructions because he was following your lead. (Think placebo effect.)
May I suggest that you build your hallway to conform to safety standards, and make a donation to tzedaka instead?
I hate to think that someone might be injured as a result of this.
Again, I admire your sincerity and wish you only the best.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 2:22 pm
I would look into this since the ovens today are built so different then during the the time of Rav Yehuda Hachasid. They don't have openings to the outside, do not have chimneys. I would check if this applies to modern ovens and ranges.
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 3:56 pm
Can I ask what possesed you to ask a shayila about it?
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 4:15 pm
Are you a Skvere chassid?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 4:21 pm
This is a fascinating discussion. I never would have thought moving a stove would require a consult with my rabbi.
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 4:29 pm
I just googled and found this:

Quote:
Moving an Oven

One is not allowed to remove an oven from its place since doing so is putting himself in danger.[25] The reason is because sheidim are underneath an oven and when one moves the oven one is starting up with the sheidim.[26] This item in the will is brought down by many poskim and one should adhere to it.[27] Some say an oven may be moved if one did not cook on it for a while.[28] It would seem that one may move an oven to fix it.[29] This inyun does not apply to radiators which are built into the wall.[30] Some say if an oven was only used for cooking (and not baking) then one may be lenient.[31] Some suggest one who has to move an oven should sell it to a [gentile], and then buy it back from him after it is moved.[32] There is an opinion in the poskim that says the whole concern of moving an oven applies if one will sleep in the empty space where the oven used to be.[33]

Many poskim say one may not even move an oven to use the space for a Yeshiva.[34]

One may remove an oven if he will put a different oven in its place.[35] Based on this one who is remolding a kitchen may remove the oven to replace it with another one. However, it would be forbidden to change the place of the oven in the kitchen.[36] If the entire inside of the house is demolished, it would seem that moving the oven to a different spot is permitted.[37]


Some poskim say one may move an oven if he removes an amah of ground from underneath it.[38] Others are lenient and say one is only required to remove a tefach of ground from underneath the oven.[39]

There are poskim who say the danger is only for the one who actually removes the oven, and there is no danger to the renter or owner of the house,[40] while others disagree with this.[41] In any case, since this involves danger, one who is not unsure if a particular case is included in this part of the will should consult a competent Rav.


Could you dig up dirt from the spot where the oven used to be and put in new dirt and have a normal hallway?
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 4:30 pm
I thought the Baal Shem Tov banished the sheidim anyway.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 13 2015, 4:37 pm
Wow! Never heard of this one!

OP, what kind of sick are you talking about? Is it possible there is mold in the walls or maybe some kind of plant growing nearby that you're sensitive to, etc.
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