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Monsey Trails Sued for Employment Discrimination
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:37 pm
zohar wrote:
Also, DH is going to sue our local mikvah because they have never, ever hired a female attendant.


A mikvah is a religious institution- it can discriminate under the law for certain characteristics. A bus company is not and cannot.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:40 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
Would anyone scream at a Muslem company that only hired Arabs?
Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't want you??
So they are not politically smart enough to make up some other excuse for not hiring women than making it a company policy, people need to find better things to do with their time.
If they would hire female drivers, you would hear complaints of a dress code of men not handing the women things of men not looking at them.


Who said they didn't make up reasons not to hire women? It becomes patently obvious that they don't hire women because there are no women drivers.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:42 pm
zohar wrote:
Aren't you tolerant.

I love how liberals think they are the tolerant ones. What about "live and let live."



Lol, I never said I'm tolerant at all. So thanks for dumping me in that basket. Lol.

But yes, let's all be tolerant of bigoted people who break the law. I'm sure that will work out smashingly for society.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:42 pm
Are you concerned with the law breaking only, or are you disturbed by what you perceive as gender discrimination.

Last edited by zohar on Mon, May 18 2015, 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:44 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
Would anyone scream at a Muslem company that only hired Arabs?
Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't want you??
So they are not politically smart enough to make up some other excuse for not hiring women than making it a company policy, people need to find better things to do with their time.
If they would hire female drivers, you would hear complaints of a dress code of men not handing the women things of men not looking at them.


I know. It's so sad. We expect male people to behave civily and not be sexist and obnoxious to female people. It's hard for them. We should call them the Monsey Trails Struggle Bus riders.


[edited to remove vulgarity]
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:49 pm
zohar wrote:
Are you concerned with the law breaking only, or are you disturbed by what you perceive as gender segregation.


There are MANY cultural practices which may be offensive or disturbing, but legal. That's not the topic here. For example, I could care less about metzitza b'peh.

As for gender segregation? What do you mean? I don't care about separate schools for boys and girls. I am offended by men who won't walk on the same side of the street as women. But as long as it's not a law in that town, it's not a legal issue.


Last edited by marina on Mon, May 18 2015, 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:49 pm
Are you antii girls schools only hiring female teachers? They get government subsidies.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:50 pm
zohar wrote:
Are you antii girls schools only hiring female teachers? They get government subsidies.


educational institutions are religious ones and they have an exception for some discrimination laws. Catholic schools can refuse to hire Jews, for example. They can't however, refuse to hire blacks.

A bus company, again, is not a religious institution.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:53 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
Sometimes it's not worth it. I am all for change in Chareidi enclaves but taking on Monsey Trails is silly and a waste of time. It's a bus company. So they don't hire women drivers. Big whoop.

Now, if they weren't letting women RIDE the bus, or forcing them to sit in the back, that would be a different story. But not hiring female bus drivers? Again, who the hell cares???? So you can waste time and money yelling at a brick wall? There's no on there to hear the "lesson". Sometimes it's smarter to pick your battles.

Oh, and P.S. I've been on Monsey Trails buses with (admittedly male) non-Jewish drivers. So they do hire non-Jews, but I guess just men.


Why on earth would it be a different story? We could all still make your argument. Take a different bus honey. There are lots of other bus companies. Or start your own.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:54 pm
Whether or not they get government funding, they still have to comply with all applicable employment discrimination laws. Which laws are applicable to them, I'm not sure. That probably depends on specifics, like how many employees they have.

They deserve their fair day in court. If they're violating the law, they deserve to lose. And then they will need to either figure out a way to comply or disband. There may be ways of reorganizing into a different kind of organization that would allow them to comply with law while providing male-only drivers. Just speculating.

Personally, I see the restriction as harmful nonsense and wish it wasn't an issue to begin with, regardless of whether allowed by law. But it's not my community and I'm not the target market.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:57 pm
I had no idea Monsey Trails was government subsidized. If that is true, then I stand corrected. Sue away. I was under the impression that it was a fully private company. If it was private, my views are different.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 3:58 pm
The point is Marina, you have recently started a few threads with the same theme. Hassidic Jews = bad. You even titled one, "another chillul HaShem". If you were so concerned with kidush Hashem why would you be spreading chillul hashem? These news stories aren't even proven in a court of law or evan entirely reliable. You seem to be barely containing your glee when finding these news stories. I am going to say it. It is time to relearn hilchos L"H, Dan lekaf zechus and especialy Ahavas Yisroel.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:04 pm
marina wrote:
I know. It's so sad. We expect male people to behave civily and not be sexist and obnoxious to female people. It's hard for them. We should call them the Monsey Trails Struggle Bus riders.


How well do you know these men? I know many of them and they are not obnoxious, are respectfull and not sexist at all. I do not feel objectified by them unlike many secular men. I don't feel insulted when my cashier puts the change on the counter.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:05 pm
zohar wrote:
The point is Marina, you have recently started a few threads with the same theme. Hassidic Jews = bad. You even titled one, "another chillul HaShem". If you were so concerned with kidush Hashem why would you be spreading chillul hashem? These news stories aren't even proven in a court of law or evan entirely reliable. You seem to be barely containing your glee when finding these news stories. I am going to say it. It is time to relearn hilchos L"H, Dan lekaf zechus and especialy Ahavas Yisroel.


Yes, it's totally possible that I'm sitting here staying up all night trying to find bad articles about Jews and when I do, I rub my hands together and laugh evilly Mwahahahahahaha.

Or it's possible that I am really sick of talking about cheesecake and sexs addicted husbands and gefilte fish balls and goodness what is that discharge down there. And I find discrimination and its societal implications more interesting.

You can choose.


Last edited by marina on Mon, May 18 2015, 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:09 pm
zohar wrote:
How well do you know these men? I know many of them and they are not obnoxious, are respectfull and not sexist at all. I do not feel objectified by them unlike many secular men. I don't feel insulted when my cashier puts the change on the counter.


Well, some of those people are objectifying you. If they can't look you in the eye, if they insist on a dress code - that's because you are categorically a sexs object to to them. The handing thing is slightly different- it's because they assume you are always niddah. Which isn't that flattering either. Basically you're living in a world where men think you're an impure sexs object. Someone who might corrupt them and make them sin.

And I'm sure these men are good people at home and to their wives and with their daughters. But they still create that society where a woman is primarily, fundamentally an object of their pleasure and one to be feared.


Last edited by marina on Mon, May 18 2015, 4:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:09 pm
zohar wrote:
The point is Marina, you have recently started a few threads with the same theme. Hassidic Jews = bad. You even titled one, "another chillul HaShem". If you were so concerned with kidush Hashem why would you be spreading chillul hashem? These news stories aren't even proven in a court of law or evan entirely reliable. You seem to be barely containing your glee when finding these news stories. I am going to say it. It is time to relearn hilchos L"H, Dan lekaf zechus and especialy Ahavas Yisroel.


If it's in the news it's already a chillul hashem. Talking about chillul hashem on a private Jewish forum doesn't spread chillul hashem.
I read and comment on a popular non-Jewish news blog that always posts these types of stories about frum Jews and our scandals. The comments are often vicious and full of misinformation about Jewish practices. I try to correct that misinformation sometimes but it doesn't get very far. Basically this type of news is what people are hearing in the media about frum Jews. Marina talking about it here is not the problem. The subjects of the scandalous stories are the problem. The people who make the chillul hashem in the first place are the ones who need the mussar shmooze.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:10 pm
zohar wrote:
How well do you know these men? I know many of them and they are not obnoxious, are respectfull and not sexist at all. I do not feel objectified by them unlike many secular men. I don't feel insulted when my cashier puts the change on the counter.


I feel objectified when I'm trying to buy something in a store in Williamsburg, and the cashier pretends that I am not there. Turns his head, I am not there. Not until I loudly say I'm going to leave with my produce and not pay, then he takes my money.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:18 pm
zohar wrote:
How well do you know these men? I know many of them and they are not obnoxious, are respectfull and not sexist at all. I do not feel objectified by them unlike many secular men. I don't feel insulted when my cashier puts the change on the counter.


And frankly, I am sure the vast majority of chassidishe men could be polite and friendly and respectful. Because most chassidishe men I know are exactly like that. They manage to look me in the eye and they say good shabbos and they treat me like a normal human being. They smile and converse and ask me how my family is doing. In fact, I know very very very few people who could not handle a female bus driver. Maybe like one or two people.

So I have no idea why you are defending the crazy minority.
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Rebesq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:23 pm
Some of them are lovely. And some glare at you when they smack you in the face with their talleisim. Like all parts of the world there is good and bad.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 18 2015, 4:33 pm
Lots of interesting tid bits here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsey_Trails
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