Would u tell some1 they r not keeping kosher?

amother

Smokey

Thu, May 21 2015, 3:23 pm

Really depends on the person and your relationship with her. Like scrabble said, if she's the type who would want to know and would change if you mentioned it, then you could try. You could try the 'you know what I read in a sefer today?' kind of thing, but that only works with certain people.

This situation has come up for me with 2 people who I'm actually close to, one would take it the wrong way and the other would get annoyed, so I keep my mouth shut!

Oh also, make sure it's actual halacha and not just chumra.

bluebird

Thu, May 21 2015, 4:37 pm

amother wrote:

Oh also, make sure it's actual halacha and not just chumra.

This is very, very important. Before questioning someone else's kashrut, make sure you know what the minimums are and how different ravs pasken. You may wind up making someone upset for no reason. This includes hechshers that you may not consider OK but are generally accepted.

There's also a difference between "keeping kosher" and doing something problematic. Someone can keep kosher completely but not be aware of a few things, or using something that is problematic. If you talk to this person, be mindful of this. Stick to a specific, observed fact and do not accuse or insult them. Look at is as someone pointing out that you have a stain on your shirt or toilet paper sticking to your shoe or similar.

mille

Thu, May 21 2015, 5:29 pm

I would tread lightly.

Are you sure she just doesn't know? Or is your own perception clouding your judgment here? Are you seeing her eat a certain hechsher that you don't hold by and going "Poor thing doesn't know that whatever-K hechsher is not kosher!"? Or seeing her eat fresh broccoli and going "Oh, she doesn't have any idea that only bodek is acceptable!"? Are you seeing her butter the hamburger bun before she puts the meat on it? Honestly, what things are you seeing?

Other than some very specific situations, I would honestly say butt out. If she wants to know more, she'll seek out the info. Even the last example, at that point, she probably knows and doesn't care. If it's a hechsher thing, she probably just holds differently than you. If it's a certain vegetable thing, she probably holds differently than you. If it's an eating-at-a-certain-restaurant thing, she probably just holds differently than you...

I had a few people criticize some of my food choices when I went to a BT seminary in Israel. The policy of the seminary was 'any hechsher as long as there is a hechsher', and I would eat some rabbanut food. Some other girls somehow learned that rabanut is treif (not just 'we only eat ___', but 'rabanut is treif'). I actually remember one girl telling another that she can't buy produce at a certain stand in the shuk, because it's "treif"... Because it was not badatz hechsher. Keeping in mind, I had been keeping kosher for over 5 years at this point, and I was well aware of the choices I was making. So this is why I mention to tread lightly.

chani8

Fri, May 22 2015, 2:14 am

More likely, you are chumradik.

Because d'oraisa, if she's not boiling a kid in it's mother's milk, she's really far from 'not kosher'.
And rabbinically speaking, as long as she's not cooking meat and milk together, she's far from 'not kosher'.

What is she doing wrong anyway? Not checking something according to your standards? Many hold that if you cannot see it with your eyes, it's fine, because our ancestors did not have light boxes and magnifying glasses.

MagentaYenta

Fri, May 22 2015, 2:27 am

chani8 wrote:

To the bold: Thank you Chani8, I often wondered how my Grandmother survived without eyeglasses or light boxes and eating off wooden plates in her village in Russia.

water_bear88

Fri, May 22 2015, 3:06 am

I agree with all of the above posters. The one situation in which I would say something is if I think there's a good chance they've misread the label- especially in Israel where (by my standards at least) you know certain brands are kosher. I've run into situations a few times (once myself, once or twice with others) where someone assumed a certain packaged food was pareve and it turned out to be dairy. Still be careful how you phrase it.

Raisin

Fri, May 22 2015, 4:25 am

it really depends on the situation...I once told my friend who keeps chalav yisrael that a certain item is not cy. The labelling was very confusing. OTOH when someone informed me she buys chummus from a regular store without a hechsher, I kept my mouth shut. I didn't think saying anything would be constructive. Or when I see a friend making a salad without checking the veggies at all. In both cases they were aware of the halachos involved but chose to ignore them.

Frumdoc

Fri, May 22 2015, 4:55 am

If it is as simple as someone I know holds the same standards as me and would want to know, such as this item no longer has that hechsher, I would.

If it is someone I know would not change but would get v angry or defensive, like someone I know who doesn't hold you need to check veg or salad, buys the non kosher variety because she doesn't check and is ok with pure vegetarian as kosher, then no, there is no point. That leads to some awkwardness, but I tend to the self depreciating, "You know I am meshuganeh frum and have all sorts of rules so that is something I don't do but thanks for your consideration" when offered such products.

I have to be equally careful around some colleagues who are Reform and one is a reform convert, about being respectful to their beliefs and practices even if my head is telling me "You're not even jewish". Not my issues, we swap challah and cheesecake recipes and she went to her daughter's shavuos play, and is v involved in her community.

animeme

Fri, May 22 2015, 7:01 am

It might be an oven or sink usage thing too. Not having just one, but using one for both in a way that might be a problem.

Things can get complicated if you might need to stop eating certain things there. For that, you ask a shailah. Actually, for this whole this you can speak it out with your rav. He can tell you where there is leeway for others and how you should deal with it. I was told that by relatives, I can (and should) eat from an oven used for both uncovered within 24 hoursof each other if everything else is fine, and I don't need to ask them how they check vegetables.

amother

Purple

Fri, May 22 2015, 7:28 am

This is tricky. In a lot of ways, it's easier to deal with my bacon-eating relatives, who make no pretense about observing anything, than with the relatives who are generally kosher, but do problematic things, like buy juice or cheese without a hechsher because what's in those things that could possibly be not kosher. No, I don't say anything because they they're not interested in doing differently and would be massively insulted to have their homes thought of on the same level as the bacon-eating side of the family. That doesn't change the fact that we can't eat there (yes, we asked a Rav, and even taking into account a bunch of kulas, we still can't eat there). So we can't tell them we can't eat there, but we can't eat there, so we have to make up all sorts of excuses to avoid going, or go at non meal times etc. It's not your business what other people do until you're expected to eat there.

amother

Slategray

Fri, May 22 2015, 7:40 am

OP here: The latest example was she bought an antique coffee cup and matching spoon. It was obviously used because there a coffee ring in it. She was excited and wanted to serve me coffee after she cleaned them up.

Would you say anything? AFAIK the spoon can be fixed, but the tough luck on the china.

There were a couple of other issues which I told her and she went to her rav and found I was right. She wasn't so happy with me so I thought MYOB is better. I don't want any confrontations.

I don't want to come across as a know it all but the ladies won't let their kids play at her house if they find out these things.They are not forgiving. She is a convert which no one knows about. She is proud of her mug and I am afraid she will show it off. I suggested it would make a great planter which she doesn't want.

amother

Slategray

Fri, May 22 2015, 12:35 pm

little_mage wrote:

With china, I have heard rulings that if it's been unused for a year, you can considered it kashered. I'm not sure of the exact details, but there are leniencies.

It was recently used in a non kosher kitchen. That is the coffee stain. We belong to the same shul and our Rabbi would never let. I don't want to ask him what to do because it would be telling on her