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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers
Buying expensive clothes for kids that ruin it....
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 07 2015, 10:59 pm
mommy2b2c wrote:
And I think it's silly that you spend money on your sons tuba lessons. And I think it's silly that you redid your bathroom for the third time in four years. And I think it's silly that you send to a private school that charges $30,000 tuition. And I think it's silly that your husband drives a Porsche.

Realistically, all gashmius is silly and illogical. Who is fmt4 to decide which one is the silliest of them all?


My son wanted tuba lessons because he thinks tubas are cool. I wanted my bathroom to look beautiful. My husband wanted a porsche because he's very into cars. I bought myself a gorgeous expensive dress that I hung carefully in my closet and wore on special occasions. I bought my son a 70 dollar t shirt that he had no interest in and then promptly stained with watermelon on because I thought the t shirt had a cute design on it.

To me, one of those things doesn't fit. But if you think that they're all the same then ok, I guess it's just something I'll never understand. But please don't play the jealous card. There is no reason for me to be jealous of something that I find illogical and silly.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 7:47 am
amother wrote:
We had a similar thread a while back. Most mothers who spend on their kids' clothes openly agreed that it was for them, not for the children who don't know the difference.
If you're saying every penny and all your belongings are accounted for and used to the fullest extent and the idea of waste personally offends you, ok. Teach me please Very Happy

But telling people what to waste their money on comes out jealous.


I am telling the community not to waste the community's resources on kids clothes. Half of my tuition dollars goes to support other people's tuitions. That is hundreds of thousands over the course of my kids' education. Wasted resources concerns every person who supports the waste even indirectly.

When I give tzedukah directly to families, I am concerned over the profligate spending habits of those I support. While I never say anything except to DH, I can see that the wasteful spending contributed to the family lacking money for a simcha or rent. Ironically, I give tzedukah to one family directly to cloth her children. I offer to drive her or to go on the computer for her so the money stretches. She prefers to shop in the frum stores. I end up buying for her children clothes I deem a waste of money.

Just because you can afford to travel first class and choose not to doesn't mean you are jealous of those that do.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 7:51 am
Squishy wrote:
I am telling the community not to waste the community's resources on kids clothes. Half of my tuition dollars goes to support other people's tuitions. That is hundreds of thousands over the course of my kids' education. Wasted resources concerns every person who supports the waste even indirectly.

When I give tzedukah directly to families, I am concerned over the profligate spending habits of those I support. While I never say anything except to DH, I can see that the wasteful spending contributed to the family lacking money for a simcha or rent. Ironically, I give tzedukah to one family directly to cloth her children. I offer to drive her or to go on the computer for her so the money stretches. She prefers to shop in the frum stores. I end up buying for her children clothes I deem a waste of money.

Just because you can afford to travel first class and choose not to doesn't mean you are jealous of those that do.



What you are discussing is a separate issue. You are talking about spending money you dont have. Obviously that is wrong. Especially when you are taking tzedakah. I also get annoyed by such spending. Im trying to figure out why it bothers people if I spend money that I do have on one luxury over another.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 7:54 am
fmt4 wrote:
My son wanted tuba lessons because he thinks tubas are cool. I wanted my bathroom to look beautiful. My husband wanted a porsche because he's very into cars. I bought myself a gorgeous expensive dress that I hung carefully in my closet and wore on special occasions. I bought my son a 70 dollar t shirt that he had no interest in and then promptly stained with watermelon on because I thought the t shirt had a cute design on it.

To me, one of those things doesn't fit. But if you think that they're all the same then ok, I guess it's just something I'll never understand. But please don't play the jealous card. There is no reason for me to be jealous of something that I find illogical and silly.


Obviously youll never understand it, be ause its not something you enjoy. But, its silly for you to tell other people what to spend their money on and what luxuries to enjoy.
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bandcm




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 8:06 am
Bitachon101 wrote:
I call it insane, cuz the store owners see the demand is there... And then sell almost all kids clothes at insane prices cuz they know you'll buy it. And those of us that are practical end up suffering and gawking.

snip

I like to buy cute stuff too... Who doesn't love the oohs and aahs when ur babies look to kill but the prices just soar above my tiny little income and its greatly because the rest of the public falls for it and doesnt protest.

So yes, it does affect us when non-practical money spending moms go on the splurge... I'm not telling u what to do. I'm just urked by the concept of it all and hate the lack of practicality for the attention of whose kids are dressed best.


You are really suffering because other children are dressed nicer than yours are?
You crave attention from others for how your kids are dressed?
You want your babies "dressed to kill" so that others should ooh and ah?

So you are just as shallow and materialistic as those you are trying to malign, just you can't afford to keep up. If you had the money, your kids would be dressed just like those kids. So who are you to condemn them? Nobody should buy anything nice until you can also afford to buy the same?
This is precisely what Hashem was talking about when He said in the Big Ten "Lo Sachmod - don't desire" - not your friend's wife, not his house, and not his kids' clothes.

I know I am being rather harsh. This is a really ugly attitude - if I can't have, nobody should have.
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 8:59 am
mommy2b2c wrote:
What you are discussing is a separate issue. You are talking about spending money you dont have. Obviously that is wrong. Especially when you are taking tzedakah. I also get annoyed by such spending. Im trying to figure out why it bothers people if I spend money that I do have on one luxury over another.


She said she was giving tzedekah, not taking it. It's very hard to give people $$ to live on when you know it's going to fancy under-eye cream. When I help people, I do what she does in terms of errands and such. My closest friend went bankrupt, lost everything because of over-spending on unimportant things. We have very little, but even if I'd been doing well, financially, I knew that offering to help her in this way wouldn't give her what her family needed. So I invite her for dinner, or bring casseroles. My friends and I have always played a little round robin with clothes we're donating, from one friend to the next, so I let her go through my bags. But actual cash? No way.

(And I actually don't care a lick about how you choose to spend your own money, since you seem to have enough to buy fancier things. Not meant as a jab, but merely as fact.)
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 9:05 am
amother wrote:
She said she was giving tzedekah, not taking it. It's very hard to give people $$ to live on when you know it's going to fancy under-eye cream. When I help people, I do what she does in terms of errands and such. My closest friend went bankrupt, lost everything because of over-spending on unimportant things. We have very little, but even if I'd been doing well, financially, I knew that offering to help her in this way wouldn't give her what her family needed. So I invite her for dinner, or bring casseroles. My friends and I have always played a little round robin with clothes we're donating, from one friend to the next, so I let her go through my bags. But actual cash? No way.

(And I actually don't care a lick about how you choose to spend your own money, since you seem to have enough to buy fancier things. Not meant as a jab, but merely as fact.)


You are not understanding me. I am not in disagreement with you. Or her. I keep agreeing with you, actually. I am in disagreement with the people who tell me that I am insane or silly for treating myself to a luxury that I bh, can afford. (And btw, I don't spend crazy, extravagant amounts. But I so spend more then I realistically need to.)
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amother
Coffee


 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 9:07 am
mommy2b2c wrote:
You are not understanding me. I am not in disagreement with you. Or her. I keep agreeing with you, actually. I am in disagreement with the people who tell me that I am insane or silly for treating myself to a luxury that I bh, can afford. (And btw, I don't spend crazy, extravagant amounts. But I so spend more then I realistically need to.)


Except weren't you judging the person who wanted to spend on something like tuba lessons?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 9:49 am
amother wrote:
Except weren't you judging the person who wanted to spend on something like tuba lessons?


Not at all. I doubt she gives her son tuba lessons. I made that up. I was using satire to make a point.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 10:26 am
5mom wrote:
I disagree. How is it different from decorating your house? As it happens, I think it's wasteful to dress small children in expensive clothing. But I'm sure that there are things that I spend money on that other people don't think are valuable. Who cares?

It only matters when you start assigning value - as in, mothers who dress their children in expensive clothing are "classy" (whatever that means) and mothers who shop at Target are somehow inferior.

If I like to set a nice table and serve meals on fancy dishes all the time, that doesn't make a statement, it's just a personal preference.

Yes, I think that there is such a thing as conspicuous consumption, and it's not attractive. But we can rant about it or ignore it. If we ignore it, then people are less likely to try to impress the neighbors. There will always be people who value fancy clothing. If they are spending their own money, let them buy what they want. It's up to the rest of us to see it as a matter of taste, and not as a challenge.


As long as you're (general you) not treating your children like another accessory, and they're not feeling tense and unable to live in the expensive stuff.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 10:42 am
PinkFridge wrote:
As long as you're (general you) not treating your children like another accessory, and they're not feeling tense and unable to live in the expensive stuff.


Absolutely. I just meant that some people spend on expensive furniture that needs lots of care because they love it while others find it wasteful.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:16 am
PinkFridge wrote:
As long as you're (general you) not treating your children like another accessory, and they're not feeling tense and unable to live in the expensive stuff.


I absolutely agree with this. In fact, on shabbos, I dressed my son up in fancy white shorts and he told me that it's not a good idea because he wants to play a game that involves a lot of falling on the ground and he didn't want to get them dirty. I told him what a sweet heart he was and not to worry. I said- you worry about having fun, and let mommy worry about doing the laundry. He was satisfied with that answer and went out and had a great time.
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baltomom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:18 am
If all the people who were spending money on the expensive clothes could afford it, that would be great. But after discussing on another thread how a frum family needs upwards of $200,000/year to pretty much make ends meet, which most people in the community are not making, how can we believe that ALL the people dressing their kids in expensive clothing are actually making enough money to pay for everything else (including tuition) and then have extra to spend on clothing?

Furthermore, by the community standard rising (I.e. not just 2 or 3 mothers choosing to dress their kids this way, but a lot more), it puts tremendous pressure on other people (whether they can't afford it or choose not to spend their money that way) to dress their children that way as well. No, I'm not feeling pressure to dress my infant, toddler, and young elementary school child in expensive clothes, but by the time kids get to be 10 or 11, they start noticing what the others are wearing and feeling social pressure to conform....

Why are we creating such financial pressure in the community when people already can't make ends meet??
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abby1776




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:22 am
There are people out there who would rather buy one expensive shabbos outfit and dress their children in that one outfit every week rather than buy 10 less expensive outfits.

I see that a lot. People have X amount to spend on clothes. Mother A will buy two expensive shabbos outfits and take good care of them and Mother B cannot be bothered and buys 12 less expensive ones so that she can replace the ones her kids ruin.

As with other posters says - one way or another is not better - its just different. Some people decide to spend their money on expensive shabbos clothes and forgo the cleaning person and some people rather buy cheap clothes and have a cleaning person. You do not know what everyone's budget is.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:25 am
Give a home economics class to every senior class.
That's real preparation for life.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:28 am
abby1776 wrote:
There are people out there who would rather buy one expensive shabbos outfit and dress their children in that one outfit every week rather than buy 10 less expensive outfits.

I see that a lot. People have X amount to spend on clothes. Mother A will buy two expensive shabbos outfits and take good care of them and Mother B cannot be bothered and buys 12 less expensive ones so that she can replace the ones her kids ruin.

As with other posters says - one way or another is not better - its just different. Some people decide to spend their money on expensive shabbos clothes and forgo the cleaning person and some people rather buy cheap clothes and have a cleaning person. You do not know what everyone's budget is.


A problem is that there is a lot more peer pressure these days. If someone wants healthy kids she can't raise them as nebs.
I'm not a Robin Hood. I believe that people should spend their money as they wish. In fact, I've heard it said that some serious gevirim have been told to live on a higher level to make them feel more sympathetic and to be bigger baalei tzedaka. I believe that. But in the past, we have-nots looked at our friends the haves and didn't feel pressured to dress like them. Like the Ibn Ezra says re lo sachmod, we knew that this wasn't going to be for us and yet we were all friends. When all the kids are being dressed in a certain style (and due to the matching trend, and the fact that styles change so fast, you can't assume you'll be able to save the clothes to hand down*) you have to find a way to make your kid not feel like a neb. It can mean H & M clearance, recent season hand me downs from good friends or gemachs, all sorts of possibilities, but parents have to make an effort such that they didn't have to before.

* to be fair, girls clothes styles have always changed. My younger girls couldn't wear the dresses my older ones did. But trends did last longer.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 11:28 am
abby1776 wrote:
There are people out there who would rather buy one expensive shabbos outfit and dress their children in that one outfit every week rather than buy 10 less expensive outfits.

I see that a lot. People have X amount to spend on clothes. Mother A will buy two expensive shabbos outfits and take good care of them and Mother B cannot be bothered and buys 12 less expensive ones so that she can replace the ones her kids ruin.

As with other posters says - one way or another is not better - its just different. Some people decide to spend their money on expensive shabbos clothes and forgo the cleaning person and some people rather buy cheap clothes and have a cleaning person. You do not know what everyone's budget is.


And some people can afford cleaning help and expensive clothes. And that's okay too. As long as they can really afford it and are not asking for tuition breaks.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 12:20 pm
pink fridge hit the nail on the head about the peer pressure- the question is why what changed that now the have nots feel pressure to imitate the haves and they didn't used to? and she lives OOT Smile !
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 2:05 pm
abby1776 wrote:
There are people out there who would rather buy one expensive shabbos outfit and dress their children in that one outfit every week rather than buy 10 less expensive outfits.

I see that a lot. People have X amount to spend on clothes. Mother A will buy two expensive shabbos outfits and take good care of them and Mother B cannot be bothered and buys 12 less expensive ones so that she can replace the ones her kids ruin.

As with other posters says - one way or another is not better - its just different. Some people decide to spend their money on expensive shabbos clothes and forgo the cleaning person and some people rather buy cheap clothes and have a cleaning person. You do not know what everyone's budget is.


The alternative is to buy 2 less expensive outfits and take care of them especially when you can't afford the alternatives. In my community, there are very few who can actually afford to clothe their families in the manner the community is accustomed to. The ladies are on every government program there is and getting tzedukah who still feel the pressure to conform to outrageously expensive clothing for children.

The real question is what is X. X in the average family in the US is 2.8 % of the family income to clothe the entire family. I can't see how most people manage to cloth their entire family within this parameter when they are already paying a premium for food, education and housing.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 08 2015, 4:20 pm
I took my high school dd shopping today, seems like finals = shopping, who knew? Two of the local frum stores that we have shopped at in the past were carrying higher end lines that they didn't used to carry. One store didn't used to have skirts or tops for more than 60-70 and you could get things for 30-50 also. They still had some of the cheaper lines, not as many, and they had skirts and tops for over $100, some close to $200.

The other always carried some high end, now it was almost all high end, we're talking minimum $100 going up to over $1000. There were still some cheap items on the sale racks, but very few.

While I'm not jealous of what anyone is spending or wearing, the fact that other people will spend so much has created a problem for me. I just can't afford most of what's available, but, that's life I guess.
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