Would you give maaser to s/o critical of DH?

amother

Blonde

Sat, Jun 13 2015, 11:30 pm

amother wrote:

A few times she asked for large sums of money and I told her I had to discuss with DH. He said no and she made comments.

If he has already said no to her before, why is she still in your tzedaka list? Did he object to her or to the amount? In any case, there are unfortunately many people in need. I would find someone else.

amother

Vermilion

Sat, Jun 13 2015, 11:37 pm

CPenzias wrote:

No. Tell her to get it from someone else. I'm a grudge-holder so maybe I'm not the best one to answer.
Why does she need all this Money? Is she working? Kids? Single?

Married with many children. She works hard at odd jobs to earn money. Her husband doesn't make very much. She is on programs. Her poverty is grinding.

amother

Vermilion

Sat, Jun 13 2015, 11:44 pm

amother wrote:

He started out by objecting to the amounts. Then I told him her reactions. He then objected to her. She is so needy and I feel she counts in what I give her and it is still not enough. The problem is that I am trying to get a handle on my spending so DH and I are listing everything we spend so the amount I give her should be listed. Right now he sort of knows but doesn't realize how much.

I don't know if I should explain that she has a difficult life. I don't like not to be in accord with DH. Is this something to stand up for?

5mom

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:03 am

You seem like a very kind person who is being manipulated.

This woman has a hard life. That doesn't give her the right to insult your husband for not meeting her expectations.

As you said, she counts on your contribution. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic. Maybe put her in touch with a local rabbi or chesed organization and funnel your contribution through them. You can keep on helping her, but from a distance. (Also, you may deduct it on your tax returns.)

It seems to me that the personal aspect is not working and that you are going to get burnt out if you keep on going like this.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:12 am

5mom wrote:

I tried going through her rabbi. The money never got to her and her Rabbi is related! When she insults DH I stop giving for awhile. She then backs off.

groovy1224

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:18 am

amother wrote:

I tried going through her rabbi. The money never got to her and her Rabbi is related! When she insults DH I stop giving for awhile. She then backs off.

What makes you say the money never got to her? Did she tell you that? If yes, could it be that she lied to get you to contribute even more?

Bottom line if you ask me, is give her an amount you feel comfortable with. I would leave her personality out of it, unless she's really nasty. Try and think of it as helping her poor children out, not her. If she doesn't like the amount your giving her, tell her you'll find someone else to take it. She'll change her tune pretty quick.

5mom

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:33 am

amother wrote:

I tried going through her rabbi. The money never got to her and her Rabbi is related! When she insults DH I stop giving for awhile. She then backs off.

Or maybe she's just telling you she never got the money. This woman seems toxic. Maybe you can give to her kids' schools, or arrange for food packages or to pay off doctor bills, but I would suggest that you not be directly involved. Please find a chesed organization that will work with her.
The unpleasant truth is that you cannot help everyone.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:39 am

groovy1224 wrote:

I know the money didn't get to her from the rebbetzin. We never discussed that money. I actually tried twice for tax reasons. She always says thank you when she gets something because sometimes I send envelopes with others or I will stick an envelope in a food bag.

She is gracious with what I give her now. The problem is DH isn't happy with her. I want to help her but not very into it with DH.

zaq

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:40 am

One time a schnorrer remarked negatively about the sum of money I gave him. I said "you don't like it? then don't take it" and snatched the money right back out of his hand. I know, I'm not a nice person. It's my mitzvah to give tzedaka, but it is also my decision how much to give and to whom. the schnorrer is not entitled to my tzedaka and certainly not to decide how much I should give. If someone doesn't like what I give, there are plenty of others who will accept my contribution pleasantly and with gratitude. I don't have to put up with nastiness. It's my choice, and I choose to give to people who are pleasant.

5mom

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 12:43 am

amother wrote:

Why isn't your husband happy with her?
Why would her relatives not be willing to forward her money? Could it be that they see something you don't?
Again, I really admire your kindness. Just be careful not to get dragged into a mess.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 1:23 am

5mom wrote:

My husband isn't happy with her because of her comments. Her relatives pay many of her bills. She has a very large family and she has very little cash. Her husband is dysfunctional and doesn't make much money. I can only imagine how horrible it is to live without being able to pay bus fare etc. I want her to feel normal and have some discretionary cash.

I feel that because she is having such a tough time that she should be ignored for her comments. She was only trying to budge me to give her money. OTOH DH thinks she shouldn't be allowed to upset me.

5mom

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 1:36 am

You are determined to give no matter how badly she treats you. Why does your relationship with this woman take priority over your self esteem and your husband's dignity?

If you really want to alleviate the family's suffering, please give through an organization. If you need to be a martyr, continue as you are. Your choice.

Sorry to be harsh, I just don't feel that I am getting through otherwise.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 2:00 am

5mom wrote:

Something Fox said once about dysfunctional people being dysfunctional. That I can't hold someone to regular standards who is suffering. I think I also have guilt that I have it so good and someone I know is suffering so much. It is so easy to help her and I don't miss the money. I don't know anyone else IRL that has it so hard.

I can't do it through an organization. You would just stop?

5mom

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 2:16 am

amother wrote:

Why can't you help her through an organization? If she really has these problems, a social service agency should be able to help, not to mention that they are better equipped than most individuals to deal with the emotional end of things.

No, I wouldn't want her children going hungry just because she's a difficult person, but allowing her to drag you down is not a feasible solution. There are ordinary people who fall on hard times and benefit from financial help. Then there are people who are dysfunctional and need more than just money. Giving money without addressing the underlying issues is just a band aid and may prevent the recipient from getting the help she really needs. You can keep them afloat for a while, but if the ship is sinking, they need a full fledged rescue at sea. That's a job for the experts.

Again, I admire your kindness and compassion. I just think that the best thing for everyone involved is to hand the situation over to the experts. Otherwise you will be sucked dry long before this woman is willing to leave you alone.

groovy1224

Sun, Jun 14 2015, 2:19 am

amother wrote:

Okay, here's what I would do. Speak to your husband, and see how strongly he objects to giving her charity money. If he's really really against it, I don't see any way around it.

If that is the case though, and even if not, maybe you can contribute in another way? If say, you were giving her $100 a month, can your maybe just shop at the grocery store for her while you do your own shopping, and have some staples delivered to the house? Just some bread, milk, eggs, pasta, etc so at least the children are not going hungry? This may be preferable anyway, since if she is dysfunctional, she may have problems managing money, so sending goods directly may circumvent that?

In the same vein, maybe you can give her your kids hand me downs, or clothes you/your kids don't want? If her kids are walking 2 miles to school because she can't afford a car, maybe help arrange a carpool?

Obviously, this all depends on how much you want to get involved. But those were just some different suggestions instead of just handing over some cash.

I feel like it's easy for people to say 'forget her, if she's going to be rude to you then wish her good riddance.' But its not that easy..It's not so simple to turn your back on people, especially children who live in poverty. You can't solve everyone's problems, but I don't blame you for wanting to try.