It totally normal, right?

Bitachon101

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 8:24 am

Tell me its totally normal for my little guys to have the need to rip and break everything. I mean Everything. From any pen pencil they can find to books sefarim documents to their toys!!!!
Its so frustrating to constantly throw out good toys that they decided to crack break or pull apart. (Ages 1.5 and almost 4)
Oh and my jewelry how can I forget. They climb on buckets to reach my jewelry and broke a few of my earrings and necklaces....

But its totally normal right??? They're boys and boys will be boys.... And don't spend money on anything cuz they're just gonna take it apart....

Rolling Eyes

OK. Vent over.

suzyq

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 9:33 am

asp40 wrote:

I will be the voice of dissent. Anything fragile should be kept away. If they break their own toys that's one thing. But they shouldn't be destroying your home. It's your job to make it safe for them. And they need to learn right from wrong.

I agree with this. Especially the four-year-old - he is old enough to understand how to not tear everything apart. My boys are very active, crazy boys, but they don't destroy stuff the way you are describing. Rules need to be in place and enforced.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 9:37 am

Agree.

Boys need to get outside a whole lot. Some of this is a reaction to confinement. Not good. Not good.

Is all well at school or care group, also, is something I would muse about.

They also need much more contact with their father. It is his job just like his other job. It must be done.

And they might need climbing and building block equipment at home.

Yes, don't let them hurt anything you value. The word "no" should not be their idea of the family motto.

Their father needs to physically whirl them around and hang them over his shoulder by their legs and feet. With the mother out of the room so she won't have a fear reaction. She can listen to their shrieks of joy from the other room. Boys love that kind of thing. Being hung by their feet and all. By their father, nobody else.

They need to run after a brightly colored and easily grasped ball in a safe place. You might need to clear a room and cover the glass windows.

But the outdoors is necessary no matter what you have at home.

The above varies a lot from boy to boy. Some boys are calm and thoughtful. But they are still boys and need at least a little of the above. Some need tons. These seem to.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 2:38 pm

They may be intellectually curious, pulling things apart in an effort to figure out how they work, but still too young to figure out how to put them back together again. My hairdresser said about her son that he broke everything he touched, and he touched everything. he grew up to be a sought-after mechanical engineer

You have a certain responsibility to make your home environment suitable for your children. If this means putting a lock on every door and drawer and storing chairs in a closet except when people are sitting in them, so be it. If it means putting your jewelry in a safe or in the bank deposit box, so be it. Buy toys suited to their abilities: simple so they can't be torn apart and solid so they won't break easily. Solid wood or plastic blocks, not hollow plastic. Lincoln-log type things or puzzly things that can be disassembled, made of short, solid, chunky pieces--just make sure they're not of choky size. Bouncy rubber balls, not kooshy balls that can be destroyed rubber band by rubber band. things that are made to be destroyed, like big corrugated cartons. Let them knock themselves out trying to shred a refrigerator box. When they've done their worst, you'll have mulch for the garden. Do keep an eye on them lest they make a staircase out of a collection of boxes and use it to climb high enough to attack some lightbulbs and ceiling fixtures.

zaq

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 2:48 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Their father needs to physically whirl them around and hang them over his shoulder by their legs and feet. With the mother out of the room so she won't have a fear reaction. She can listen to their shrieks of joy from the other room. Boys love that kind of thing. Being hung by their feet and all. By their father, nobody else.

.

Dolly, you know I love you, right? But this is the 21st Century. Moms can pick their sons up by their ankles, too. I should know; I used to do it all the time till they got too heavy for me to lift. Then I would play "wheelbarrow" with them by holding on to their ankles while they walked on their hands.

BTW I suggest a minitrampoline, lots of pillows, plenty of duct tape. Trampoline and pillows for obvious reasons; duct tape to repair the sheath that covers the springs and keeps them from snagging mischievous little fingers, toes, hair, etc. The sheath will tear anyway, but with ~~destructive~~ lively and curious little fellas as OP's, this will happen sooner rather than later.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 8:12 pm

Good for strong mommies who can pick the boys up.

Century or no century, the touch of a man is different, and his engagement with his sons is not the same as yours. But whirl away, as much as you can or feel like. But you concede, in time they got a bit heavy for you.

When we hang our heads in Shemayim for our failures, "I wasn't strong enough to lift a four year old" isn't going to be on that list. It is not required of you to fling your boys around unless you feel like it. It is required of their father. Unless he's really old or not well or something along that line.

"Wheelbarrow" is a very good idea. OP, take note.

But these boys still sound confined. Indoors too much.

Maybe we need Zip LInes in our hallways. Maybe we need Rope Climbing Walls or free standing Rope Climbing Cubes. With soft mats underneath.

Zip lines in the hall!

Start a business, somebody. High at one end, low at the other. A separate line for going and coming; two lines. Whee!

https://www.google.com/#q=zip+lines+at+home

https://www.google.com/#q=buy+zip+line+kit

https://www.google.com/#q=rope+climbing+cube

https://www.google.com/#q=mat+.....cture

Here are some mats:

http://www.usgymmats.com/rockclimbing/

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 8:44 pm

A woman I knew some time back inherited an empty brownstone in Brooklyn NY and being a strong type (she was from Dubrovnik for pete's sake, she had seen warfare) set to work renovating it herself. She perished. The cause o death was the Fish Bicycle Fallacy. The Fish Bicycle Fallacy kills.

Instead of calling for male help, she herself informed the homeless guy living in the basement that the place was under new management. He informed her that gender distinctions still persisted in these modern times.

I didn't hear about her death until later. I knew her vaguely from work. She was a nice kid. In her thirties, I believe.

Any remarks about the interchangeability of women and men irritate me. This kind of nonsense can get you killed.

A man also needs to remember the infinite safety and sweetness of his mother, his dear mother, the first angel of his existence, a permanent refuge in a hard world for his whole life. Roughhousing with his father is another rope to climb altogether, another thing.

Wounded soldiers do not lie on battlefields calling for their fathers.

However, and contrariwise, they need to be roughhoused by these fathers.

Women and men are different because G-d likes variety. It's also why I'm here. I am certainly variety.

Back to your regular programming.

Bitachon101

Tue, Jun 16 2015, 9:12 pm

You guys crack me up. I'm not even sure why!

But I think the most on the mark reply was khaki amother.

My 4 year old (almost) is the most curious being I have met on this earth. His destructivenss is not merely out of wildness but out of experimenting (and a bit of impulsiveness). He sometimes reminds me of a little Einstein with his need to quench his thirst for figuring out the world and the why it is that way.

But his destructiveness gets out of hand.
He doesn't realize he is being destructive until either the results happen or I admonish the deed.
I try prevention, I try safety, but trust me in an apt there is a limited amt of place to keep things. They learned how to pile things up and climb so they can reach high shelves.
I used to have soooo many pens in my house, my little guy has a detector for pen hiding places and will shlep chairs across house to climb and reach and crack pens pencils and crayons in half.
I keep my expensive stuff out of reach but apparently not many places are out of reach for curious George.

I set rules but I have a hard time getting my kids to listen.

My keyboard keeps disappearing and its getting annoying to type Sad

Laughing Bag!

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 2:46 am

I don't know if it's normal but it's common. However kids need to be thought and disciplined over their wrong actions. They should know that destroying something that is #1 not theirs, or #2 needed is not OK. They need to be thought right from wrong.
I'm not saying is easy, but it's should be ignored or dismissed as normal.
I do believe it can be a sensory need to touch, feel, experiment with stuff. I would suggest you give them things to destroy and geeky them this you can tear/break.
The grocery boxes, foam from packaging, build with lego/blocks and knock it down, bubble wrap, as mentioned above wheelbarrow is very good for kids life that. And Dolly's ideas were great. I want to be the first to know when zip line in the hall is available for retail. We can SO use it here, lol.
Anyway there are many different types of things that you can find to get the kids the sensory input they are seeking. Pkaydough, oobleck, diy slime, tearing up any mail that's not needed but they need to be told which is theirs because you don't need it.
My dc has torn almost every one of his alef Beis baloons that he brought home to put up, at first I was upset but then realized this is he. I am very strict about destroying something that isn't his, or something that we all need even if it's 'his'. But I can't go after everything, I try to teach him right from wrong and give him things to destroy or touch... and hope that the things that shouldn't be touched stays that way.
Along the way I learnt one thing the more I hid or locked things the more energy he had to get to it. Unless it can be a potential danger to the kid or others I don't lock or hide stuff, I remove the child from the situation and talk, talk,talk. At one point it becomes impossible to lock things like one poster said the couch, or we have my older kids things. It's hard but they need to be thought right from wrong!
Stay strong because of ain't easy.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 8:19 am

The links I posted may help someone put up a Zip Line in a hall. You can buy Zip Lines; look at the links. Putting one in a hall doesn't seem to be done yet. It might need its own custom built free-standing framework to hang from. You might not be able to attach it to the house's walls, because it would be too heavy for that, perhaps.

This is a job for an intelligent carpenter. It's not rocket science. You might think about safety mats underneath it, and you would want to be safety conscious in its construction. I would put a nanny cam on it. (Change the factory password.)

It doesn't sound to me like the end of the world to rig up. By someone mature, and skilled with tools. A frum man carpenter and athlete. He should talk to a pediatrician to get a sense of what to be careful about.

Bitachon101

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:26 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Dolly, my kids get outdoor time
Every day as long as not raining we spend at least an hour playing outside after school.
In school the 4 yr old has time at the park.

I agree the apt is a little couped up but I can't be outside watching every second and I refuse to be the mother that let's her kids roam without supervision and getting into trouble.

Also, there is no way in heaven I have nerves for a zip line running across my apt.... But tx for the idea. They aren't wild kids, just have a need to get into things and break or rip them. I gave them paper and crayons today and the first thing they did was rip the paper into shreds. They do it as a team too. I just ignore it if its something like that but I try so harsbtobteach them its wrong when it's things needed or nice.

I think they don't intend to be destructive but have impulses to rip break or crush.
I notices 4 year old sometimes will give a push or kick his legs while laying down giving me a wack and when I yell in pain he gets surprised. Not realizing he was doing it, just had urge that came out. My 18 mth old started doing tht too. I give them egg cartons and old newspapers when they need to impulsively rip and break but its getting ridiculous.
They break everything in site and I'm losing my patience.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:38 pm

You are trying very hard. That is wonderful.

Check their diets, that they are eating solidly; fats, protein, vitamins.

Extend outdoor time a half hour longer than before. From an hour to an hour and a half. They are constantly getting bigger, after all.

Put some colorful things where they can see them; they may need more sensory stimulation and are giving it to themselves this way.

Put on some music.

Talk to the pediatrician. That's what they are there for.

See if all is well with their school people and caregivers; I am not saying it isn't, it's just something to check.

If you need people to help you, say with shopping, talk to your rebbetzin.

Bitachon101

Fri, Jun 19 2015, 12:37 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Forgive me, but are you on your cell phone too much? Are they shredding things in frustration about that?

(Ducks, in terrified humility)

I'm not gonna say I'm never on my cell, but mostly my cell time is when they're in bed or a min here and there between things.
I play with them, I sing to them, I build with them, tho sometimes I have more strength than others. Sometimes I need to do work and that can't change. During those times I don't pay attn to them. They are very good with keeping eachother entertained (aside from constant typical figgting) but I think the destructiveness stems from boredom and the need to explore and definitely a sensory thing. The toddler gets such sensory satisfaction over cracking pens in half....