Why was What's App banned?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 9:57 pm

Inanimate objects are just tools, nothing more or less. What makes something "good or bad", is the intent of the person using it.

You can use a hammer to build a home, or to bash your neighbor's brains in. We have free will, because that is how Hashem designed us (and I'm pretty sure He knew exactly what He was doing.)

Now, should we ban all hammers, because somebody might get hurt? What if 100 people got hurt by hammers every year, would that be too much? What about 10, or 5? What if no one has ever gotten hurt by a hammer, but they might, and you just can't be too safe!

Now we have another choice. Teach people how to handle hammers in a safe and responsible manner, or we will have to build things with marshmallow fluff.

Marshmallow fluff has it's place in the world (like in my belly!), but I wouldn't recommend it as a way of life. I'd rather learn how to use tools properly.

youngishbear

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 11:37 pm

True words, FF.

Only, we can't build without hammers, but can we really not have relationships without social media? Are emails and texts that inconvenient to say that Whatsapp is such an important tool, on the level of hammers, knives, and fire?

I don't have it and I am not lacking a thing...

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 11:52 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Aside from Imamother, I rarely use social media at all. I never even heard of Whatsapp until I saw it mentioned here.

I was thinking more about the internet in general as being a tool, and how it can be a wonderful educational resource, a time waster, a way to reach out when you're lonely, or a door into the darkest evil. It just depends on what you choose to click.

Let's use Netflix as an example. Personally I choose to watch National Geographic documentaries with my home schooled DD, to show her the wonders of Hashem's world. I do NOT choose to watch "Toddlers in Tiaras" or anything that has "The Housewives of…" in the title. If Netflix was banned entirely, then I wouldn't have any choices at all, and I don't see that as a good thing.

youngishbear

Wed, Jun 17 2015, 11:58 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Exactly.

I specified whatsapp because that was the focus of this thread, and this particular tool I believe we can all live without. The internet is a different story.

It is my knife and hammer, rolled into one.

Plus sweet sweet marshmallow fluff. Wink

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 12:01 am

youngishbear wrote:

OK, but some people prefer Whatsapp over FaceBook. Again, removing a choice is not a healthy way to lead people. We need to be educated, not bubble wrapped.

youngishbear

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 12:13 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

OK, but some people prefer Whatsapp over FaceBook. Again, removing a choice is not a healthy way to lead people. We need to be educated, not bubble wrapped.

I hear your point.

I guess bans don't scare me... I view them as suggestions lol. Like an alert - this is something we advise you to avoid because we have seen that it can have negative consequences for your neshama... (Sort of like a detour for flooded roads? It tells you don't bother driving this way, we checked it out and the path is too full of obstacles. Here's a better way to go...)

Regarding whatsapp and Facebook, no problem for me to follow the suggestion.

I think the blanket ban on the internet is not taking hold because it's almost impossible not to be connected to the www these days. They were not telling you to take a detour, they were telling you to keep your car in the garage and not leave your house at all... When they switched the campaign to filtering your devices, that made more sense. It acknowledged an existing reality and helped people handle this tool safely.

Again, these bans are not for people who don't care about conformity and anyway do what they please. It's for people who may be naive about what's out there, and/or prefer stronger boundaries to protect themselves from unwanted or accidental exposure or contact with all that.

That, too, is a choice.

DrMom

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 1:39 am

gp2.0 wrote:

It's so weird. I'm not in most social media platforms. I am in several whatsapp groups - a couple of family groups to share news and photos, a class group with moms from my daughters class for questions, reminders etc. I would love to start a group with neighbors from my block for the same reason - sharing cleaning ladies, asking about babysitters, that sort of thing. They're not always outside when I have a question.

I've never liked spam or junk, I was in another family group where someone posted random stuff that I found boring, I left the group.

What's weird is how I manage to navigate whatsapp without being exposed to naked pics or random guys flirting with me or whatever else is going on. I mean, judging by the ban, I must be an exception to the rule, right? Everyone else is wildly promiscuous with whatsapp and I'm the only vanilla one? #sarcasm

Sign me up for Team Vanilla too.

We use whatsapp to keep in contact with the other parents in my children's class/gan, so we all know what to bring for class trips, when the science fair is, what time to bus leaves for the mesibat siddur, etc. We use whatsapp so all the employees working on the same project can be quickly notified in case of meeting changes.

I never got any weird or racy videos on my whatsapp groups. I never even heard about obscene whatsapp groups until I read about it on imamother.

The content of your whatsapp messages and emails and letters and conversations is more a function of (1) who your friends and colleagues are and (2) in what context your interaction takes place vs. what medium you use for communicating with them.

Tablepoetry

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 2:18 am

youngishbear wrote:

It really, really depends on your community.
I think whatsapp is far more ubiquitous in Israel than in the states, in general. At least so it seems from people I know.
I rely very heavily on whatsapp. Like Dr. Mom, I've found it's the most convenient form of communication for groups, like my kids' classes or colleagues. E-mail does not serve that function; sure you can write a whole group of people at once, but when each person starts replying, it gets very messy. In whatsapp each conversation is very clear.
I also know people that get smut on their whatsapp, though I never do. If that's your problem, change your friends, not your whatsapp.

Rebecca Beck

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 8:54 am

I get no shmutz on my whatsApp either but I can totally see where whatsApp can be VERY inappropriate. The speed with which revealing or dirty pics make their rounds is astonishing. And privacy is non existent. It just takes one person to take a pic of a chussen/kallah and in a matter of minutes it's spread around the whole world, even to people who don't know them. I don't like that at all. I hate when my friends forward me pics of kallah's I barely know. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

youngishbear

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:05 am

Rebecca Beck wrote:

Many posters might not get the problem of chassan kallah photos being publicized... And it isn't a problem for you if it doesn't bother you.

A relative of mine was horrified to get a screen grab of her makeup artist's whatsapp profile - with a before and after pic of her on her wedding day! It was really crass.

Some posters keep saying "if the group is inappropriate, drop the friendship." What if it's family? Or other people that the relationship is too complicated to "just leave the group"?

Point is, there's something to be said for avoiding whatsapp and to each their own.

Notsobusy

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:16 am

youngishbear wrote:

I agree that that's wrong. But the makeup artist could have and probably did, put it on her Instagram, Facebook and the wall of her salon. All of those would be equally wrong. It's not What's App that's the problem, it's the makeup artist.

youngishbear

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:18 am

glutenless wrote:

The wall of her salon is in a separate category of wrong-ness. The rest are all social media. Whatsapp is unique out of all social media in that it is acceptable and widespread amongst even the most chassidish (filtered-smartphone toting) crowds.

And for people in these circles, having their photo displayed specifically to strangers whom they might meet in their hometown is especially disconcerting.

Notsobusy

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:46 am

youngishbear wrote:

I hear your point, and I wasn't aware that it's widespread amongst chassidim too, but I still maintain that it's the makeup artist who was wrong here. The problem is not What's App or any other social media, the problem is that too many people use bad judgment and don't filter themselves.

Jeanette

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 10:46 am

I've seen a lot more inappropriate and disturbing things on this website than I've ever seen on whatsapp.

It's one thing to say, I made a choice to use A but not to use B.

It's another to say, I have no use for A and I see no reason why anyone else should either, but I have a need for B and therefore it's okay to use B.

wifenmother

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 12:14 pm

glutenless wrote:

Perhaps. But then as YoungishBear pointed out, when you're part of a group that isn't easy to drop out of such as family and the like, and you have no control over what anyone else in the group posts, that is an issue. Just because my b-I-l decided that a certain pic is interesting enough to share, doesn't mean that I won't find it inappropriate. By the Admorim banning it, they have essentially given their chasidim that would prefer to drop WhatsApp so that they have control over what they are exposed to, a socially acceptable way of saying "No, I'm above that".

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 12:56 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Are you saying that you have family members that are totally appropriate, and would be perfectly fine to email, text, and talk to on a regular basis, but somehow their evil side surfaces when they send out whatsapp messages?? Hard to believe.

Amarante

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 12:59 pm

I am not sure if it is tangential to the discussion, but in the specific instance of the makeup person, at least in the US, she would have violated privacy rights of her client. She should not be sending ANY photos of clients unless she had a written release.

But in terms of the App itself, I am still not understanding why it should be singled out for ALL people rather than there being advice on how to use it appropriately. I just find it VERY hard to believe that anyone who has no interest in schmootz is going to somehow be led down paths and wind up a s*x crazed drug addict. :-). Are respectable men actually sending hard core [filth] to each other?

And I also find it hard to believe that FAMILY MEMBERS would take the risk of mailing [filth] to other family members.