Budget for Young Working Girl

amother

Rose

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:25 pm

I am looking for advice on how DD and I can create a reasonable budget. DH feels we should cover her clothing costs so she can save all her income towards her future. However I feel that giving her a credit cards makes her somewhat oblivious to costs.

Sitting down with my credit card for the past (almost) 2 years since she finished school, she has spent around $5500 on clothing, shoes, makeup & facials, hosiery etc. My feeling is that we should pay for a reasonable amount & let her pay for anything over that. Even though the budget below is about $3k, of course I am hoping some things last more than one season (boots? coat?) but she claims many shells and tops don't last more than one season.

She does not have expensive taste but finds it very difficult to find clothing she likes, so sometimes, if desperate (e.g. date the next day), she spends more than usual. I'm encouraging her to plan ahead a bit! She tries the Jewish stores but also looks for sales in the malls and outlets.

Here's a sample budget we came up with. If you are a shopper in expensive stores, your experience will probably not apply to us.

I also suggested that even if you find a stunning very summery (e.g. white lace) top for Shabbos or chasunahs, or a very well-priced dark velvet for winter, you should try to get mostly all-season items so you won't need so many different items. I also mentioned that in my day, by the 3rd date if you ran out of Shabbos clothing you borrowed from a friend! But her friends don't have her taste in clothing!

So, please tell me if you have comments on our proposed budget (not on the fact we have it!)

Spring/Summer # of items/Avg cost/Annual cost
Weekday tops 6 30 180
Shabbos top 2 60 120
Shells 6 18 108
Skirts 4 60 240
Shabbos skirt 1 60 60
Wedding skirt 1 65 65
Wedding top 2 50 100
Heels 1 75 75
Shabbos shoes 1 50 50
Weekday shoes 1 50 50
Dating outfits 3 50 150

Fall/Winter
Winter Weekday 6 30 180
Shabbos top 2 60 120
Shells 6 18 108
Shabbos skirt 1 60 60
Heels 1 75 75
Shabbos shoes 1 40 40
Weekday shoes 1 40 40
Dating outfits 3 50 150
Weekday coat 1 50 50
Shabbos coat 1 120 120
Boots 1 100 100
Annual
Tights 30 7 210
Makeup 2 50 100
Facials 4 60 240
Skin products 2 120 240

Total 3031

amother

Teal

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:35 pm

Oh my god, as a young girl of 22 myself, I think your daughter is a spoiled girl, to say it nicely!
Save for the future? What does she think will happen when she gets married, who is going to finance her wardrobe then? The time to learn how to budget is NOW!!! When I was at home, I paid for almost all my skincare/bath/body/makeup, with the exception of soap and toothpaste etc, the kind of things my parents would pick up for the whole family. As for clothing, my parents purchased one nice outfit for me per season as well as one skirt and one top for everyday. Approx $200/season (before alterations). Shoes I bought on my own. I paid for gas on my own when I went long distances. Seriously, your daughter needs to learn how to prioritize! If you coddle her, when she is married she is going to be in a jam!!!

But the numbers on your budget do sound about right.

amother

Purple

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 9:38 pm

I think your amount of clothing is to little.

I would say since she is working she should have at least 10 tops for the season

Four shabbos outfits and even more if she goes to shul shabbos

Shoes she should have more then one pair of weekday shoes

Shells especially in the summer as they are mainly light color stain and don't hold up so they will be replaced.

One wedding outfit is enough I think the two tops and one skirt is reasonable.

Dating outfits can also be used as shabbos outfits or really nice weekday outfits, it does not have to be exclusive.

I say this as a mother of daughters in this age group, this is really the time to dress up and the need to look put together.

I feel and I am doing this with my daughters, I give them a dollar amount that I can afford and if they want more by all means they can use their own money.

It is very important to save money now as the expenses are very minimal (one of my daughters has saved close to 90K). Advise your DD on having a savings goal (75% of her net income for example) and the rest she should enjoy. Now is time in her life that she should go on trips with friends experiences that are difficult when she will have the responsibility of marriage and children.

zaq

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 10:46 pm

Please tell me this is not your idea of an annual budget. Surely your dd does not need to buy a whole new wardrobe every season. I mean, really, two new winter coats every year? Who does that? Unless she has just gained or lost a great deal of weight, even if she has just now transitioned from school to the business world, she should not need an entirely new wardrobe. Surely she already possesses many if not most of the items on the list and needs only to add those items that she lacks and replace some that may be worn out. Most of her clothes should still work, perhaps in different combinations from the way she put them together before. For example, an oxford shirt with pleated skirt screams "school girl", but the same pleated skirt with a silky blouse and a belt is an entirely different, more sophisticated look.

oliveoil

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 10:49 pm

zaq wrote:

Thank you! You said it better than I could.

amother

Rose

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:15 pm

We pay her car insurance, cell phone, medical insurance.

She had uniforms in school, so at most a couple of "Sunday" outfits, and nothing suitable for chasunos. She does wear through shoes so they need replacing.

No, I did not mean she would need new coats every year, so I guess some items are not annual, at least until they go out of style...

It's true light colored shells get stained although they're mostly underneath, I would think. But also just plain wear out. She says the cheap clothing doesn't last.

And she has some skirts in smaller sizes that don't fit now, but when she dates she doesn't eat, so she loses weight & wears her smaller skirts...

Of course in some circles this would be very little, and in some circles a lot.

(I also didn't include nightgowns and underwear.)

seeker

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:19 pm

I don't think the total amount of clothes sounds like very much, and the amount you're suggesting each one should cost is for some a bit on the low side (depends on shopping mazel. For example, sometimes you can find good shoes that fit well under $50, sometimes you can't. Depends what they have and what feels good on you.) That's picking everything apart. But generally nobody does this kind of calculation all at once. You replace things gradually, as-needed.

However, I think a calculation of how much she "should" have and how much it "should" cost is totally moot. She is an adult, you should not be dictating what she should have/pay. If she's using your money, you can definitely dictate how much of your money she may use. Probably better if you give her money or a debit account that you fill rather than giving her full reign of your credit card. Then she can decide what she wants to spend it on and if she wants more, whether she will pay for it or would prefer to do without and save her money. This is what "saving for the future" means.

I guess my parents were lucky that I just happened to have a strong independent streak because they did let me use their credit card without questions when I lived at home. But I just kind of took for granted that it was not meant to be used excessively or for luxuries. I would never have used my parents' card to pay for facials (unless, for example, mom said to me something like "Sheifelah, I want you to look extra special for the bar mitzvah next week. Get yourself a facial and put it on my card, ok?")

I agree with oliveoil that you are already generously contributing to her future by paying for her basic necessities such as rent and food. You also got her started with her wardrobe because I'm sure you outfitted her sometime after she graduated high school; while various aspects of her wardrobe needed updating since then that's already a good start. I don't see how she's ever going to become an adult if you're not only continuing to pay for her clothes but also starting to pry into how much she is getting.

The Happy Wife

Thu, Jun 18 2015, 11:34 pm

For people who say these are too few outfits, those are in addition to what is presumably in her very packed closet. Shells don't last more than 6 months? Two new coats every year?

Of you want to pay for clothes, give her a set amount to spend, and let her figure out what to spend it on. If she blows it all on one week, that would be a good lesson. But if she has been buying clothes like this for years, she probably doesn't need any new clothes or shoes. At all. Maybe new outfits for Yom Tov to be nice.
OP, are these spending habits a new thing? You would be kind to cut her credit card up and help her adjust now before it causes her shalom bayis issues. And yes, just swiping a credit card probably means she has little concept of money. Making her spend some of her own hard earned money will make her understand a little better, but if she is not responsible with money and she blows all of hers that would really be a shame. So give her money to spend, and let her figure out the details, but helping her to save money for the future will not help if she has no concept of how to spend now.
Just my two cents. Wink

seeker

Fri, Jun 19 2015, 12:07 am

I also don't understand what is meant in OP by "when she's desperate - such as a date the next day." What happened to whatever she already had for previous dates? I most definitely did not get a new outfit for every date. How many times is she going out with the same person already - if she is seeing the same person numerous times then she should start going more casual (maybe some of her nicer work/everyday outfits) or repeat outfits. What kind of boy is going to notice or care if the girl he's dating wore the same outfit on date #5 as date #2? He probably wore the same thing EVERY time!

I also never had a Shabbos coat except when I was younger and got one as a hand-me-down a few times. I had a decent looking coat for all the time. It also seems a bit silly how you've split things up by season, though I suppose the total amount of items might come out about the same (except maybe these "dating outfits" of which she seems to have 6 in total that DON'T overlap with Shabbos/weekday clothes. I don't really get that.) But again, this is all hair-splitting as OP really should get her nose out of adult DD's closet. I'm with the ones who say let her develop her financial sense on these things. You can certainly give her gifts of either money, items, or gift cards to supplement her spending since you seem to be able and interested in helping her save more for the future, but the responsibility should be hers. When she realizes that she can't or doesn't want to spend more money, it will be OK because she already has plenty to live with. She'll slow it down on her own and buy what she needs as needed.

tigerwife

Fri, Jun 19 2015, 7:06 am

If she's working, she can have her own credit or debit card, and she should NOT walk around with your credit card. It's harder to spend your own money. Yes, as an adult presumably doing adult things she will need to have money on her at all times. If you feel like she did not have to pay for x item (for example, she needed a new skirt and bought it herself), then you can discuss it and reimburse her. With your CC, she might be feeling like everything is free.

I would have liked to have my parents CC but it never happened Wink

. No, they did not cover my restaurant expenses and manicures or high-ticket items. They provided food and rent and most of my wardrobe so I would say I was quite lucky enough. JME.

CatLady

Fri, Jun 19 2015, 7:34 am

I must be naive because when I saw the title of the thread, I expected line items such as "Savings", "Retirement Account", "Travel", "Transportation" "Restaurants", "Gym Membership", "Student Loan Repayment", etc. Not how many pairs of tights she'd be planning for in a calendar year. There's no need to replace everything every year. Seriously, a winter coat is a 2-3 year investment.

I'd suggest she read one of the excellent books by Gail Vaz-Oxlade to get an idea of what percentage of her income should go to savings, debt repayment, etc. Then she can work within a realistic amount set aside for clothing, while saving to ensure that she's building a solid financial future.