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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Children kicked out of school
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:09 am
kb wrote:
I did not say deny him of a Jewish education. I said send him to a school with other Jewish children on the same hashkafic wavelength.

I hope that he will stop repeating 'any of it' when he's around children without that exposure. I have explained to him that such concepts are not nice things for yiddishe boys and I think he accepted it.


Yeah, just send him away. Is there another school like that? Will he get accepted there easily? Is it really a good fit for him? Is it a good school? There may be nuances there that make it a mis-fit, in other respects. His parents are certainly a better judge of that than you are. Otherwise they would not have chosen this school, would they have?

What would the change do to him? Should he be taken out of his chevra, because kb and co. have decided he should?


I support your decision to be mechanech your child, teaching him that he does not need to repeat everything he hears. He will have exposure throughout his life, so teaching him to be strong at an early age is the way to go. It's healthy. I tell my kids all the time - other people may do such and such but WE DON'T. The sooner they absorb this the better.
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Lady Godiva




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:12 am
kb wrote:
OH MY GOSH this was a theoretical example. My child was in playgroup with a boy. He will be starting school this year. The said child IS NOT in the school he is going to (they did not even apply!). My point was entirely to explain to the people saying that there's no such thing as a school being a bad fit for a child. Yes, there is such a thing as a school that isn't the right school for a child without meaning anything bad about the family.

I'm so happy to hear that the child will not be exposed to people who might be looking out to ruin his life!
I don't think your point was that there are schools that may be a bad fit for some children.
I think your point was that it's okay to throw a child out of a school if other parents don't want him near their little angels.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:13 am
kb wrote:
OH MY GOSH this was a theoretical example. My child was in playgroup with a boy. He will be starting school this year. The said child IS NOT in the school he is going to (they did not even apply!). My point was entirely to explain to the people saying that there's no such thing as a school being a bad fit for a child. Yes, there is such a thing as a school that isn't the right school for a child without meaning anything bad about the family.


Perhaps, but once a child is in the school, there's a responsibility to that child. Kicking him out and leaving him stranded...or to a choice that may not be good for the child in other respects...or to adjustments that can work out poorly.....the mechanchim who do this will face this after 120.
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:21 am
Chayalle wrote:
Perhaps, but once a child is in the school, there's a responsibility to that child. Kicking him out and leaving him stranded...or to a choice that may not be good for the child in other respects...or to adjustments that can work out poorly.....the mechanchim who do this will face this after 120.


I hear what you're saying. I did not go into a field in chinuch (other than bringing up my own children) partly because of the incredible responsibility such a job entails. I understand that this is not a simple decision to do, and as I believe I posted earlier, should not be done without first trying to work with the family. But if a school's student body has a certain hashkafa, and there are other schools with different hashkafos, I don't think there's something wrong with asking a child to switch schools. (And yes, for the schools to work together on this regard.)
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:25 am
kb wrote:
I hear what you're saying. I did not go into a field in chinuch (other than bringing up my own children) partly because of the incredible responsibility such a job entails. I understand that this is not a simple decision to do, and as I believe I posted earlier, should not be done without first trying to work with the family. But if a school's student body has a certain hashkafa, and there are other schools with different hashkafos, I don't think there's something wrong with asking a child to switch schools. (And yes, for the schools to work together on this regard.)


I daven in the same shul as a very prominent principal in Lakewood. I'm a few seats behind her on Yom Kippur. I see her cry and I wonder what responsibility she carries. I don't envy her. I wouldn't be able to do her job.

I think that even if a school has a certain Hashkafa, there has to be room - a little bit of room - and also understanding. Chinuch comes with responsibility. Alot can happen to a child that is switched - and to the family. The child's future is affected. It's not so simple to tell someone they are not a good fit. There can be alot wrong with it.
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Lady Godiva




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:27 am
kb wrote:
I hear what you're saying. I did not go into a field in chinuch (other than bringing up my own children) partly because of the incredible responsibility such a job entails. I understand that this is not a simple decision to do, and as I believe I posted earlier, should not be done without first trying to work with the family. But if a school's student body has a certain hashkafa, and there are other schools with different hashkafos, I don't think there's something wrong with asking a child to switch schools. (And yes, for the schools to work together on this regard.)

I have news for you: A child who's thrown out of a school (yes, asked to leave means thrown out) will NOT be accepted very easily into another school. Not to the right, nor to the left. So asking parents to take their child out of the school because other parents don't want their child there is cruelty. An averah. Equal to (or worse than) desecrating Shabbat.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:28 am
Lady Godiva wrote:
I have news for you: A child who's thrown out of a school (yes, asked to leave means thrown out) will NOT be accepted very easily into another school. Not to the right, nor to the left. So asking parents to take their child out of the school because other parents don't want their child there is cruelty. An averah. Equal to (or worse than) desecrating Shabbat.

Retzicha (murder)
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:29 am
Lady Godiva wrote:
I have news for you: A child who's thrown out of a school (yes, asked to leave means thrown out) will NOT be accepted very easily into another school. Not to the right, nor to the left. So asked parents to take their child out of the school because other parents don't want their child there is cruelty. An averah. Equal to (or worse than) desecrating Shabbat.


Yes, this.

(I'm not familiar with all the new lingo, but...WORD!)
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:44 pm
kb - Schools have rules that fit their Hashkafa. My son wears T-shirts to Yeshiva (Israel, DL), your school would never allow that. My daughter's ulpana (DL HS - Yeshiva for girls?) allows sandals without socks. They don't allow short sleeves and they keep an eye on skirt lengths. We know the rules. I don't mind if my daughters wear short sleeves, but never to school. By enrolling my daughters in that school I must keep the rules and realize that they will probably influence my daughters to stop wearing short sleeves (they did). I love the Hashkafa of the schools cause I love the way they make the kids want to improve their keeping of mitzvot through the acceptance and openness of the teachers. Our Yeshiva HS and Ulpana are the regional HSs of the Shomron. They have to accept everyone. I think they can throw kids out at some point if they don't follow the rules, but no one is thrown out because they "don't fit".

We get some kids from traditional families in our schools. Through the teachers and other kid's influence a lot of those kids actually become dati (sometimes the parents too). That's what teachers are supposed to do. Teach in a way that inspires kids.

Does your school have rules? I know I've seen threads here where women talk about schools that don't allow TV's, computers, smart phones, driving... I assume that your school allows computers and internet. Maybe you're not a "good fit" for your school if they allow those thing. Find a school that doesn't or you'll be miserable.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:47 pm
Op, I and all my siblings and almost all the other sefardi kids in my school were asked to leave one year. After pressing, our parents were told that we were all mildly learning disabled for one reason or another.

In the long run, it turned out to be great. I got a much better education elsewhere (homeschooled). And I'm not learning disabled. But I had been a good student before and became an excellent student trying to prove them wrong. I wasn't the only one.

Hang in there, gam ze ltovah
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amother
Lime


 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:55 pm
Why is anyone surprised? Has no one been following school threads on imamother?
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 2:10 pm
amother wrote:
Why is anyone surprised? Has no one been following school threads on imamother?


You don't have to follow imamother to know teachers and principals are control freaks. They love power.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 2:50 pm
kb wrote:
I did not say deny him of a Jewish education. I said send him to a school with other Jewish children on the same hashkafic wavelength.

Sure. You can use a sorting hat for that.
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Happy18




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:20 pm
amother wrote:
You don't have to follow imamother to know teachers and principals are control freaks. They love power.



As a teacher in find the incredibly offensive. I have multiple degrees in education and didn't go through years of schooling so that I could have "power" over anyone.

Posting from my phone otherwise I would have an lot more to say!
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:36 pm
amother wrote:
You don't have to follow imamother to know teachers and principals are control freaks. They love power.
I'm not a teacher (didn't like most my teachers). But most of my kid's teachers and principals are wonderful (not all, but most). They teach and are principals because they really care about their profession of being Mechanech kids. The ones that are power hungry and control freaks are poor teachers and don't last long as a principal in our schools. A good principal finds ways to weed out the bad teachers.

amother - find your kids a school where the teachers and principal are there because they honestly care about kids. Don't generalize.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:42 pm
Happy18 wrote:
As a teacher in find the incredibly offensive. I have multiple degrees in education and didn't go through years of schooling so that I could have "power" over anyone.

Posting from my phone otherwise I would have an lot more to say!


And I will wager a years salary that you don't teach in Lakewood or any very Charedi school
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:44 pm
Lady Godiva wrote:
I have news for you: A child who's thrown out of a school (yes, asked to leave means thrown out) will NOT be accepted very easily into another school. Not to the right, nor to the left. So asking parents to take their child out of the school because other parents don't want their child there is cruelty. An averah. Equal to (or worse than) desecrating Shabbat.


ITA. There is a very tiny chance that your (kb, and people like her) child's life will be ruined because he knows about the latest Disney show, but there is a very big chance that a child's life will be ruined because the school threw them out. How can you say, with no guilt, that you would gladly push this child onto a path that could prove harmful? I'm horrified.

Every time a school thread pops up and someone like you posts, kb, I am once again relieved that I had the luck and wits to get my kids out of that system.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:58 pm
2
Happy18 wrote:
As a teacher in find the incredibly offensive. I have multiple degrees in education and didn't go through years of schooling so that I could have "power" over anyone.

Posting from my phone otherwise I would have an lot more to say!
Smile

As the daughter of a teacher, the dil of a principal and teacher, and a teacher myself I stand by my words. Teachers are all about control and if they can't control then they fear chaos will erupt.

Perhaps people don't go into education with the intent to control those without power, but standing in front of a classroom evolves ones personality and there is an educator mindset.
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:59 pm
kb wrote:
I hear what you're saying. I did not go into a field in chinuch (other than bringing up my own children) partly because of the incredible responsibility such a job entails. I understand that this is not a simple decision to do, and as I believe I posted earlier, should not be done without first trying to work with the family. But if a school's student body has a certain hashkafa, and there are other schools with different hashkafos, I don't think there's something wrong with asking a child to switch schools. (And yes, for the schools to work together on this regard.)


Let's be clear. Your making sure to keep your kids isolated from certain cultural influences because it's psychologically comfortable for you. You don't enjoy tolerating certain things and prefer to keep with a very insular crowd. That's fine. But it has nothing to do with the will of the eibeshter. The eibeshter created all kinds of Jews and gets pleasure when we exercise ahavas yisroel above our own personal interests. Once we start throwing yiddishe neshamod away because we want our kids to play davening games etc them we are completely missing the point of what holiness really is altogether.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 4:02 pm
Where is this fantasy world where schools work together to find the best school for a child???? I want to go there. Are there unicorns there too?
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