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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Sfardim and eruv- is this correct??
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amother
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Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:31 pm
I recently bought a house with an apt downstairs. I got a tenant in there. a sfardi boy but originally ashkenaz girl. (I know her from before and BIL is friends with him)
we have NO ERUV so we dont carry. The first shabbos they were home I reminded both of them that there is no eruv. They said OK. The ENTIRE shabbos the guy (dont know abt the girl) was carrying. I just minded my own business. The second shabbos ppl made some comments to him. He claimed that his rav lets him carry with no eruv. The shul is in my house and ppl are here all shabbos. It looks bad. PPl have asked if he is frum and really shomer shabbos. Has anyone heard that sfardim carry on their property with no eruv?
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Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:38 pm
Au contraire, most Sephardim I know (and I know rather wide spectrum ranging from Persians, Iraqis, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptian, Turkish, Spanish, Moroccan) are actually MORE MACHMIR when it comes to eruv. The basic rule for us is, we don't hold by artificial boundaries where eruv relies materially on wires instead of actual physical barriers like hedges and walls. We were told that Sephardi community should not rely on a wire eruv, though some rabbis permit Sephardim 'piggybacking' once Ashkenazim construct/maintain such eruvim.
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Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:40 pm
amother wrote:
a tenant in there. a sfardi boy but originally ashkenaz girl.


er, I presume your tenant is not a transgender person?
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:41 pm
amother wrote:
I recently bought a house with an apt downstairs. I got a tenant in there. a sfardi boy but originally ashkenaz girl. (I know her from before and BIL is friends with him)
we have NO ERUV so we dont carry. The first shabbos they were home I reminded both of them that there is no eruv. They said OK. The ENTIRE shabbos the guy (dont know abt the girl) was carrying. I just minded my own business. The second shabbos ppl made some comments to him. He claimed that his rav lets him carry with no eruv. The shul is in my house and ppl are here all shabbos. It looks bad. PPl have asked if he is frum and really shomer shabbos. Has anyone heard that sfardim carry on their property with no eruv?

Is there a gate around the property?
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:42 pm
Mrs Bissli wrote:
er, I presume your tenant is not a transgender person?


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 7:47 pm
is this a paying tenant?
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amother
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Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 8:04 pm
Lol. Yes its a couple. Girl grew up Ashkenazi. I know her for a long time as well as her family. No gate around property and they r paying tenants.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 8:17 pm
amother wrote:
Lol. Yes its a couple. Girl grew up Ashkenazi. I know her for a long time as well as her family. No gate around property and they r paying tenants.


I don't know that you can tell paying tenants how to behave in regard to religion.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 8:48 pm
vintagebknyc wrote:
I don't know that you can tell paying tenants how to behave in regard to religion.


I'm fairly confident you may not impose your religious beliefs and standards on paying tenants; nor may you legally discriminate against such tenants on the basis of their religious standards or beliefs, or lack thereof. Not in the US of A, at any rate.
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Lady Godiva




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 9:44 pm
It depends. I know the more yeshivish Sepharadim (in the U.S., at least) won't carry even if there's an eruv with strings; their minhag requires actual walls. I also know more modern Sepharadim who carry without a designated eruv. Then there are Sepharadim who will carry with any designated eruv.

Why does it bother you that he carries on Shabbat? It's a mitzvah that's between him and Gd.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:17 pm
OP why are you so nosy? It's time you minded your own business. And when someone at your home schul mentions something you should tell them to MYOB. I think it's rude that some folks would have confronted him.
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amother
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Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:24 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
OP why are you so nosy? It's time you minded your own business. And when someone at your home schul mentions something you should tell them to MYOB. I think it's rude that some folks would have confronted him.

and I think u r a terribly rude person. To call someone nosy that u dont even know for asking a question. Its not being nosy. I never said anything to them. I just wanted to know if thats normal in the sefardic world. I am not saying anything at least at this point.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:28 pm
Why are you even reminding them that there is or isn't an eruv? none of your business.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 22 2015, 11:31 pm
amother wrote:
and I think u r a terribly rude person. To call someone nosy that u dont even know for asking a question. Its not being nosy. I never said anything to them. I just wanted to know if thats normal in the sefardic world. I am not saying anything at least at this point.


Well at least I do it under my own screen name. And I think it's terribly rude for people to publicly question the mans drecht. He is a tenant who pays rent and he is entitled to live his life unharrassed by nosey parkers.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 2:27 am
Often if someone has only lived in areas with eruvim they have no concept of not carrying on shabbos. Most Safardim are machmir like the Rambam that the eruv should be made of walls and real tzuras hapesach, no busy or wide streets passing through.
It could be that not carrying is too much for him to accept. (Apparently it's really important, there is a whole mesechta devoted to it)
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 4:28 am
I don't think this is a sefardi thing, but possibly he wasn't raised as frum as you are. Maybe he is BT and doesn't understand you at all. Maybe he holds by an eruv that you don't hold by?

I think the test here for you is, how to feel about having neighbors who might possibly be 'not so frum'. You thought they were more frum than they are, and now you're a little shocked to see they're not. How do you want to proceed? You are obviously trying to DLKZ, which is nice. Can you accept them if they are just not ready for 'eruv'?
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 8:13 am
amother wrote:
and I think u r a terribly rude person. To call someone nosy that u dont even know for asking a question. Its not being nosy. I never said anything to them. I just wanted to know if thats normal in the sefardic world. I am not saying anything at least at this point.

Maybe you could tell us how you define the word nosy. I asked Google and it said "showing too much curiosity about other people's affairs"
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 8:14 am
Mrs Bissli wrote:
er, I presume your tenant is not a transgender person?

Can you change both at the same time or do you have to undergo separate procedures?
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 8:18 am
Nothing to do with Sfardim. What Lady Godiva wrote seems right.

But it can be misleading if frum people carry, because others may see it and assume there's an eiruv.

Still, I don't know if there's much you can do, except to post a warning sign that there is no eiruv on the property.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 23 2015, 8:48 am
Simple1 wrote:
Nothing to do with Sfardim. What Lady Godiva wrote seems right.

But it can be misleading if frum people carry, because others may see it and assume there's an eiruv.

Still, I don't know if there's much you can do, except to post a warning sign that there is no eiruv on the property.


I really don't think they should put up a sign. They told the guy, he's an adult, if he wants to carry without an eiruv he will, sign or no sign. Putting up a sign at this point seems rude, especially if people are already talking about him carrying without an eiruv, it will be very obvious that you put it up just for him.

Just think, tomorrow we could have the wife on here, crying, because she's so embarrassed in front of her new neighbors, her husband is carrying without an eiruv and everyone is talking about him. They even put up a sign to let everyone know he's carrying without an eiruv. How can she face everyone now??
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