Pleeeeeeeeeeese help me understand

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:12 am

I love my ds. hes 6 going on 7. but I get so hurt from his way of speach. dh says its macho speach. but I need to not be so hurt and be so sensitive. I have heard that you dont get hurt or insulted from a 6 year old. please dont laugh or bash me. I am sensitive enough. please explain what it is about 6 yr olds that I shouldnt get insulted. ex. he doesnt ask for something that nice. like its more of demand then request. I get hurt cause I want him to speak nicely. I know its a wish. cause boys talk that way. but what about girls I dont want to get insulted from girls this age either. pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeese explain. I need understanding not judgement. I really appreciate the time you take to explain. tia

I know normal pp dont get insulted from kids this age, so help me imamothers

imasinger

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:28 am

Unless there are some disabilities, your DH is excusing DS's bad behavior rather than backing you up. It may not be intentionally unsupportive, if he has had less experience around well mannered kids.

Kids can be trained. In fact, it's our job as parents to train them. If you don't like the way DS speaks to you, you are going to have to insist on a change in behavior. Model it. If he says, "Mom, I wanna popsicle!", you withhold it and say, "Mom, may I please have a popsicle?" And wait until he says it before handing it over.

What concerns me is that you are feeling hurt over his form of expression, rather than seeing it as something that you will have to help him improve on. This may be related to self esteem issues on your part, and you should address them, so that you can separate your own feelings from your parenting work.

chatz

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:37 am

explanations mean that you are accepting his behavior.. As imasinger said, it's our job as parents to teach our kids. If you want him to speak nicely, you have to teach him. And your DH as well.

I don't have sons that age, but from looking around, boys and men can definitely speak respectfully and politely with appreciation. Most kids don't do it naturally. If they are taught, they turn into respectful adults. And if they are not, they're just as unappreciative and demanding as adults.

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:42 am

I insist that my children speak to me with Derech Eretz. It's not because I'm personally hurt if they don't. It's about THEM - I want to raise mentchen - I want them to be kids, and B"EH adults, known for their polite speech and good middos.

I don't have sons yet, but macho would be no excuse in my book. I would insist on being asked respectfully, but would not be hurt if my child was a work-in-progress.

I have a 7-year-old DD. If she would come in and say "Gimme XYZ NOW!" I would say "let's see if we can say that with Derech Eretz" and she might then say "Mommy, could I please have XYZ". Or something like that.

5mom

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:46 am

If my child were to say pleeeeeeeeeeeese, I'd find her whiny and annoying.
If your son is being rude, by all means insist on politeness. But if it's just his speech pattern, you may have to adjust.
And look at how the parents talk to understand why you have a family wide epidemic of whiny demanding talk.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:52 am

5mom wrote:

She's just posting like that on this site. It doesn't mean she talks like this in real life.

I hate when posters do this.

sky

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:53 am

I have a 7 year old son and I expect him to talk with respect.
If he doesn't I'll try to mimic the correct way to ask
Him: "Mommy, I need a drink now!".
Me: "Mommy, Can I please have a drink of water" <wait>

Sometimes, not in the moment, I will tell him if something he said wasn't correct\appropriate\hurtful. Like by bedtime, "I felt bad that when I told you we were going to do xyz you said abc. I try to make things fun and it is easier to do that if you speak like efg. "

Besides for raising my son I'm also raising a future husband and father.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:53 am

What offends his mother is wrong.

"What offends his mother is wrong" is an iron law of the universe.

Your husband is dead wrong.

He must teach your son that there is a way to talk to Your Mother that may be different from how you talk to the fellas in the schoolyard. The schoolyard speech may be used to your father, when your mother is not present. But not when she is. He must curb his tongue with lightening speed when she walks in. Or he will get a death glance from his father.

Everybody needs to be loved by their mother.

Everybody needs to be shown how to be loveable and acceptable to their mother. That goes equally for girls!!

Anybody who does not curb behavior that truly disgusts, angers and offends that person's mother is doing them NO FAVORS. Your husband is doing your kid NO FAVORS with this indulgence.

Stop this drek immediately.

And in private, with a quiet, steely manner, no shrieking (that sounds weak), straighten out your husband.

Rule your house. It must be a civilized place. At least in your presence.

What the males say behind closed doors is not your problem. Although it is no harm to be aware of it, surreptitiously.

This more controlled speech must also be used in the presence of all girls of any age. And all ladies.

You are absolutely right to not want to raise an unbearable boor.

What repulses you will repulse others also.

Say that to your husband. Emphasize to your husband you don't want to effeminize the kid, just teach him there must be awareness of whom one is talking to.

There is not one language. There are several languages. The kid must master all of them. There is no way out of that. He is old enough now to learn this, and it had better be soon.

justcallmeima

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 12:23 pm

Many years ago I had a student (4 years old) who whined. EVERY single time she talked. As in: "Moooooooraaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, Moisheeeeeeeeeeeee is boooooooooothering meeeeeeeeeeee." I was young and a new teacer and had all the strength in the world. For 2 months I said "Chani, I can't understand you when you talk like that. Please talk like a big girl. " It took 2 months, but it actually worked. It requires a great deal of patience, and resolve to be consistent. Every single time he speaks to you in a way that upsets you, tell him the same line (Whatever line works for you, but just do the "broken record") And, you are not childish or immature or overly sensitive to be hurt when you hear your son talking in a disrespectful manner. It's not that you're insulted by him, it's that you're hurt that he is not reflecting the way you are trying to bring him up. It would be great if you could get dh on board, but you may not be able to. In any case, keep repeating your phrase every time and eventually he will stop talking like that, at least to you. Also, every time he does ask you nicely- have a line for that too like "Thank you so much for asking so nicely." or I really like the way you asked me" Wishing you hatzlacha in this important challenge!!

5mom

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 12:45 pm

amother wrote:

She's just posting like that on this site. It doesn't mean she talks like this in real life.

I hate when posters do this.

And I hate when posters are nasty and hide behind amother.

Thanks very much. I know the post doesn't mean she talks like that in real life. But when someone uses a virtual "whiny voice" she's giving the impression that using a whiny voice is ok when you're frustrated. Which may be feeding into the problem at home.

You don't have to like what I suggested. Ignore it, or tell me that you think I've missed the point. But anonymous meanness isn't very nice.

LiLIsraeli

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 12:55 pm

Teaching kids the proper way to speak is an ongoing avodah! You didn't say what exactly your son is saying that is bothering you, but it is your job to teach him. If he demands something instead of asking nicely for it, you model it: "I think what you mean is "Mommy, please may I have a drink?" And wait for him to ask like that. I also have a 6-year-old son and he occasionally forgets, but most of the time he knows - we don't demand things, we ask for them.
When he does slip up, I say, "How do we ask?" or "I can't give you anything when you ask like that!" And he changes his tune pretty quickly. If he doesn't, he doesn't get what he is asking for. Simple.

It's our job as mothers to step up to the plate and teach our kids the proper way to act. IYH when he grows up he will be someone's husband, and he needs to speak to her with respect. And kids learn to speak with respect from the way their parents taught them.

I don't always agree with Dolly's viewpoint, but this time she is spot on.

You can do it - be strong and take control. You go Mama!

imaima

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:01 pm

amother wrote:

it's not true. You can train any child to speak politely. You need to be consistent. Zero tolerance for disrespectful requests.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:30 pm

Normal people absolutely DO find speech inappropriate from anybody above say age 3 or 4. By SIX he or she, both genders, should certainly have been schooled in how to talk nicely.

It's not "insulted". You can only be insulted by an equal. You are offended by an inferior.

It's "what?" Ignore what does not compute, and rebuke it, when you are finished ignoring it.

Enforce. Model. Don't debate.

Whoever told you a six year old is the same as a pre-verbal child squalling for its bottle is wrong.

That was many years ago. No, you don't say to an infant, "where are your manners? I'm trying to get some sleep." That's an INFANT.

This isn't that size child. This is a big kid.

OF COURSE you can get offended by ANYBODY who can talk.

PS, Oh and by the way, forget this "sensitive" stuff. If G-d made you sensitive, well, He did. Everybody has characteristics. This may be one of yours. If somebody or something offends you, enforce that.

Anybody who finds your offensability weird can just plain cope, or talk to someone else. Do not allow anything offensive around you at any time.

You can be offended for free on the street corner. At home, it's your house, your rules. NOTHING must offend you, or somebody is going to hear about it and stop.

PPS, you may not even be awfully sensitive, anyway. Others may simply be insensitive. It's hard to tell at this distance. It doesn't matter anyway.

mommyla

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:36 pm

My son is the same age. Like other posters wrote, you cannot allow him to speak to you disrespectfully. There is no such thing as "macho speech" in 6-year-olds, boys and men of any age are not excused from speaking politely.

Be consistent, do not listen to him until he speaks properly (you will probably need to model it) and you will see results. It may take a while because he's used to it, but stand firm. And don't get insulted! It's your job to teach him to speak nicely so that other people don't get insulted. Don't take it personally, if your husband is excusing his behavior then he thinks it's okay, nothing to do with you.

The sooner you start, the better it will be. When my son was 3 he was a difficult kid (still can be) and I remember his morah telling me that he is challenging, but he has the best manners in the whole group! Very Happy

Start now, and you won't regret it.

tigerwife

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 1:49 pm

Like most previous posters said, you can expect better speech from your child. He may have habits by now but he is still young enough to change it. Make sure you are careful with how your younger children speak as well- it's never to early to teach good middos!

And I can understand, it's painful when you give so much of yourself to a child and not only don't they appreciate it but they are rude, too. It's hard for a kid to understand how much his parents give him- most people only fully realize when they are parents themselves. Do not take it to heart. But do work on bettering his behavior.

Good luck.

debsey

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 2:28 pm

Part of parenting is civilizing our kids. I spent years re-stating my sons' words

Son (walks in from school, drops briefcase on floor) "I'm HUNGRY!"
Me: "I'm Mommy, pleased to meet you. Pick up the briefcase and try again...."
Son: (rolls eyes, but picks up briefcase) "Hello Mommy, how was your day? What's for supper?"
Me: "Hello, darling. So glad to see you. My day was productive, thank you. Supper will be meatballs and spaghetti."
Son "this is annoying"
Me "Someday, your wife will thank me!"

I do this OVER and OVER. As you see, my oldest son is somewhat of a card, and he turns this into a joke. I'm fine with it being a joke - as long as everything is restated.

Same with - Mommy, I HATE you, or Mommy, you're so WEIRD, that supper STINKS.
You have to restate it. With my third son, we sometimes have to re-state things lots and lots of times, but I won't back down.

EWWW....It STINKS IN HERE! I won't eat....
Me: You mean, Mommy is there an alternative food that I can eat for supper?

etc.........etc......etc.....

I'm sorry, I must respectfully disagree with your dh. Since when is "macho" a value we want to instill in our kids?

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:51 pm

op here- let me be clear. it was a mistake that I said dh said its macho. it was me who thought so. anyway happens to be dh was with all of you here just didnt think in morning when things are hechtic to deal with it but instead to tell ds you didnt speak with respect I will deal with it when you come home. thats better then me getting a bit hysterical in the inside. I just insisted he repeat nicely and he wouldnt it got so late that he would go without food. thats something iwouldnt think is okay.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 3:54 pm

what bothered me was how my self esteen is so fragile and so super sensitive that I loose myself. I get so hurt. and thats something I cant change, but if you ladies have an idea how to channel sensitive nature to strong and good healthy self esteem. I would be willing to hear. I probably wouldnt take his comments so to heart. and as of now I know he is 6 and can make mistakes, thats not the issue the issue is why is my self esteem so low. why do I tell myself such horrible self talk. and how I give up so easily I suffer tremendously and need a solution. thank you ladies.

Laiya

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:33 pm

So it sounds like there are 2 issues: How to react to your child when he does something that hurts you personally, and how to build up your own self-esteem so as not to feel hurt in the first place.

Regarding your outward reaction, I think it's better to leave the room or not react at all, then to react out of your own personal feelings of hurt or anger. Calm yourself down before disciplining.

Regarding how to not take children personally, remind yourself that it's not personal! He's testing the limits of his own abilities, and he lacks life experience, and the abilities to introspect, empathize, etc., which are of course what you need to teach him. His actions are not about you, reflect nothing about you, and change nothing about you.