A problem with tenant

cbsp

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:08 pm

amother wrote:

hello, does anyone here realize he was existing tenant from the previous owner. I recently bought the house. so to me hes a new tenant. I am not the only one a lot of pp that buy a house raise the rent for the new tenant. the tenant has the choice of moving. he would pay that price whhen moving eccept for the moving costs that he doesnt want to pay. so its not great for him either. and I wouldnt raise that amount all the time. its going up market value for what everyone else is paying. whatever someone else is trying to be nice. that doesnt work, I have tried to be nice I only get complaints afterwards. I may as well get mymoney for the heartache.

Are you bothering to read what anyone (landlady and tenant alike) is telling you? They all read that you wrote he was there previously. That's what it means to be "grandfathered in." That's why they're telling you that you need to do it slowly. It has nothing to do with being chassidish or yeshivish. It has to do with realities of life and being mentshlich/civil. And I'll tell you this, if you try to evict it could take months AND they can stop paying even the 1500 they're paying now. AND come Yom Kippur you'll have that on your plate too.

Just saying.

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:10 pm

cbsp wrote:

She doesn't care. She has her opinion, she's right, we're wrong. Her tenants are wrong. Yadda yadda yadda.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:11 pm

How does his lease with the old owner read?

I won't even get into Lkwd 'market rates'. Around here the suggested is 10% increase annually but if the unit has substantial upgrades and improvements from between tenants you can often double rents. In my area it is illegal for a LL to require a tenant to repair the property owned by the LL. Yea folks will change out a switch plate but everything else is the LLs resp. All plumbing etc must be permitted and up to code.

oliveoil

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:18 pm

amother wrote:

It sounds like you have no idea what the norm is, OP.

You cannot raise an existing tenant's rent that much just because they are "new to you."

As so many others have said before me, you can raise an existing tenant's rent a small amount annually, and when they move out you can raise the rent to market value for the new tenant.

It's entirely different when someone is living there already, versus someone new moving in.

imalady

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:21 pm

Hi, Lakewooder here,

Yeshivish, btw and although I understand the dig, really theres all kind everywhere.

okay as far as what people do...

In Lakewood, by the law, you can not raise the rent more than 5% in any given year. Check with a lawyer. That means you may only raise his rent to 1575. This is enforceable in Bais din and the non jewish court. So as far as that goes, you are raising the rent more than is acceptable by law and general practice.

Not that you'll be able to. Because the increase is more than whats allowed by law, you will not be able to evict. In fact he can claim that you have not complied with the law and he is within his right to continue paying old rent until this is settled. A Bais din will not give you right on this one since Dinah dmalchusa applies and all that.

Consult a Rav because you may have issues with ona'a and/or chamas if you force him to pay 1650. Those sins are as much a part of vidui as gazalnu.

I am assuming that you do not have his abusive language recorded. In which case, do 2 things. Send him a registered letter apprising him of the new rent that is allowed within the law. Add that you expect rent to be paid on the 1st of the month or whatever old lease said. Also write there, that due to unpleasant conversations in the past all conversations will be recorded and considered admissible in a court of law. whether that's true or not, the tenant will at least moderate his tone and behavior. Record conversations in any case.

but the other poster is right: Yes, you may have issues down the road with schools or shidduchim if you chuck a family that is moving anyway. Yes that will be true even if you are right.

and it is also true that it is not worth it financially to bother if he is leaving within 6 months. 1 month of rent not earned is 10 months of not getting your rent increase. You do need him to be cooperative unless that's a risk you are willing to take.

amother

Teal

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 9:39 pm

OP, you are exactly the type of person who I was afraid of in this mass exodus of people moving to Lakewood.
Just so you know, I am chassidish. Your comment about yeshivish people was absolutely disgusting. Maybe in BP housing is a cutthroat industry so evicting people and raising rent 50% is okay, but in Lakewood people are nicer to each other. Yes, this tenant is new to you, but realize that he's been living here a long time, and you can not raise him more than 5%. You are the outsider here. People like you are ruining our real estate market and cutting us out of housing in our own town.

Personal story: I'm living here a number of years and never got a raise. During that time the market went up and down. During the last two years the market value shot up and my landlord wanted to raise us 15%. We calmly negotiated and after explaining that it's not fair to raise more than 5%, he agreed to a 5% raise. That's the way we work things in Lakewood. What people don't do is raise people 50%, nor do they evict people. If you can't adapt to our ways you should leave before you besmirch your own name.

Anon because people know my story with my landlord.

SRS

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:34 pm

My advice to the OP. Call your accountant and get professional advice (and get a reference for a lawyer should you need someone on call for future evictions). You do need to be oriented in this new business and need professional advice. Also call the government office where you rent property and get a listing of things you need to know about being a landlord where you are. If you will be accepting any government assistance in the future, make sure that you are up on that too.

Anything more I write is a waste of virtual ink.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:45 pm

amother wrote:

lime I dont understand you, everyone else is paying that price?! you dont seem to see that. only that its high price? oh its high, so find another place for cheaper. I didnt force him to stay. thats the price. I dont want sympathy. I want to know how lakewooders deal with this. obviously I want to hear from landlords. I guess I have to wait for them to answer. and btw he was lucky he got away with this price for so long. what do you say to that?

I rented an apartment for 5 years. I started out paying below $1300 which was market value when I moved in. 5 years later, after yearly increases of 3%, I was paying $1500. Then I moved out and new tenants moved in. At that time market value was $1800 and that's what my landlord charged the new people. He didn't charge me market value each year. He was a mentch and gave the standard increase.
You inherited these tenants. They were paying $1400 (for arguments sake). You want $1600. You can't just come in and say I'm the new landlord now pay me $1600. It has to be done in a mentchlich way too. With slow, little increases. If you didn't want the amount t the tenant was paying you should have put into the contract that you want the house empty when you take over.
And stop looking at what they have and what they can afford. Go through all the threads hete and see how people buy things second hand or are given money for specific purposes.
I drive a decent car. When I bought it I had a good job that paid well. I lost my job and now need assistance paying my bills. Selling my car at market value today won't even cover one years tuition for one child so I kept it. But that doesn't mean I have money to suddenly pay my landlord another $200 a month.
You need a reality check and some menthclichkeit. Don't expect it from the tenant if you won't give it.

gp2.0

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:49 pm

If we're gonna start bashing people based on stereotypes OP, maybe we should talk about how chassidim move to places that have affordable housing and then force the market up because they all want houses on top of one another. Or we can pull out the chassidish slumlord stereotype, that's a good one.

Or maybe we can ditch the stereotypes and you can just try to be mentchlich in every aspect of your life, whether it's the way you treat your tenants or your neighbors or entire groups of Jews or anyone else. Greed will only get you so far. Kindness will get you farther.

amother

Smokey

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 10:53 pm

Hi, I'm owning apartments throughout Brooklyn and leasing them out to litfish, chassidish and Non Jews. We are doing this as a incom. Though not in Lakewood I can tell you how we work. Everything goes market price according to location and condition. When we buy off a house with tenants that are paying lower than market price we first let them know that rent will be raised. Then, we send them a bill how rent will be raised. If they were paying $1500 and we want to reach $1650 we do either 1-) give them 6 months notice or 2-) start raising rent after our first month by 5% and increasing gradually every 6 months. If the difference is more than $250 we always do the second option.
Then legally you can get him out. But that's a long process. If there is no old lease then you can claim they are squirrels. If they do have any old lease that is still valid then you won't ever win even you are new and market price is much higher. You deal with yidden and are stuck to deal mentchlech.
Saying litfish has a bad name isn't true. We have non Jews causing us headache as frum Jews alike.
Good luck whatever you do

naturalmom5

Tue, Jun 23 2015, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

but why should I give it to him for that much cheaper then what all others in the neighborhood are paying? I sold a house before this and the new owner charged the old tenant from 1700 to 2300.. yes its exactly. ok that was in brooklyn. so that makes sense. but would you if you bought a house why would you do that. noway, I wont agree with you. I need to cover my expenses. thats not my real question here. I want to know how lakewooders that own houses what they do? seriously the tenant gets to control whats going on?! would you rent an appartment after I evicted him?

Speaking as someone who as been poorly treated by landlords for 20 years
As I type this I'm sitting in a toilet thàt must be plunged every single time
Whenever I tell landlord he gets very belligerent
And I pay on time every month even if I don't have food

Lakewood isn't Brooklyn
You don't go from 1700 to 2300, regardless
If that doesn't work for you , DONT BUY HERE