Put pareve sink in new kitchen (new home) or not?

OOTBubby

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:21 pm

We are building a new home. There will be a very nice, large kitchen with a large island (island will be 48" wide & 9' long) in the middle. Of course separate milchig and fleishig sinks (and dishwashers) on their respective sides of the room. The question is whether or not to put a pareve sink and dishwasher on the island. I can easily spare the cabinet & counter space they would take up. The reasons not to do it are 1) I really don't do much pareve cooking or baking, though when I do it may be a lot at once and 2) my (non-Jewish) contractor thinks it would be a waste to break up the nice big island top with a sink. Money is not part of the question here. What do you think?

zaq

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:27 pm

I would absolutely do it, and make it a nice big sink, too, not a dinky little "handwashing" or "produce-washing" sink, but then I prepare virtually anything that isn't actual meat or milk in pareve. Why would you have to "break" up the island? Couldn't you install the sink at one end?

Maya

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:29 pm

As sequoia so elegantly put it in another thread...

Quote:

Ahh, the good old days in the shtetl when everyone had two sinks...

We're nearing the time when a kitchen without three sinks will be considered a treif kitchen. I wouldn't want to be a part of this craziness.

I know you're asking about the aesthetics, not moral reasoning Smile

I agree with your contractor that it would be a waste of space.

OOTBubby

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:31 pm

voira wrote:

Yes, its so nice to be able to bake, make a parve soup.... and have a sink to put the dishes into.

That is thought, but I've never managed to do that until now. I'd start with a pareve soup (pareve pot, pareve knives, cutting board, etc.), get it into pareve containers (if I'm lucky), then serve it with either a milchig or fleishig meal and wind up putting leftovers into non-pareve containers and there it goes. I only really manage pareve now with baked goods and salads. Though I guess having the sink might help.

OOTBubby

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:33 pm

zaq wrote:

To install any reasonable sized sink on the end means the dishwasher couldn't be next to it, so I don't think that would work. And once it isn't on the end, I think it looks funny unless it is centered on one side or the other.

zaq

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:45 pm

OOT Bubby, the reason you're not successful with pareve is that your basic premise is wrong. You're trying to put pareve food in pareve servng dishes on a fleishik or milchik table and hope that it will reman pareve, but as you can see for yourself, that doesn't work. What you should be doing is using the original pareve container as your stock container from which you transfer enough for each meal to a serving dish of the proper denomination, serve with utensils of the same denomination and store any leftovers in a container of the proper denomination. Your stock container never goes to the table and is never touched by anything other than a pareve transfer utensil like a ladle, salad tongs, serving knife or gloved hand.

I have been doing this for so long, I automatically cook things like rice and pasta in a pareve pot, even if it will all go into a kugel that will be baked in a fleishik pan. Thus, if I discover that I have cooked too much for one kugel and not enough for two, I can remove some to serve as cheesy rice or noodle-cheese casserole, no problema.

Last edited by zaq on Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

OOTBubby

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:47 pm

zaq wrote:

Thanks zaq; I know that in theory, but somehow it never happens -- I always mess up at one step or another. Maybe having a segregated pareve working area would help with that. As of now I always take the wrong ladle, wrong stick blender, wrong container, wrong serving piece, etc. My son was answers these kinds of shaylas for me always knows whats coming when I start with "I was making a pareve soup..."

tigerwife

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:48 pm

I say yes to the sink but no need for the dishwasher, unless you actually have a set of pareve dishes. Just for convenience' sake. I grew up with an island that had a sink in middle so I guess I'm used to the look.

happybeingamom

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:50 pm

I have a pareve sink in my island and I love it. If you have the space I recommend it.

We do do a lot of cooking and baking in my house, I use pareve a lot for fish, baking and salads. If you have the space it is much easier.

I do have a set of pareve pots, utensils etc.

OOTBubby

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:50 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Someone actually suggested to me that it is worth putting in a pareve dishwasher even without a pareve sink. Since the dishwashers today easily handle unrinsed cookware, you can do all the baking and just stick all of the pans and bowls right into the dishwasher. I doubt that I'd actually do that though.

zaq

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 6:59 pm

OOT, if you had a pareve sink that would all change. A pareve counter would help even more, but just having a designated place for dirty pareve utensils would change the entire dynamic in your kitchen. If your color scheme is red and blue, I suggest purple for pareve. Not only is Purple=Pareve wonderfully alliterative, but color-theory-wise, purple is a blend of blue and red, so anything purple can be used with anything blue or red.

I agree with tigerwife about the dishwasher, especially since even fried pareve foods are less greasy than animal fats.

1091

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 7:01 pm

At the risk of getting yelled at, I have three sinks and two dishwashers in what sounds like a much smaller kitchen. The dairy and pareve sink are kitty corner to each other and do not touch but do share a faucet. I don't like anything on my counter and it makes it easier to put things down in the right place to get washed. Also less confusing for my babysitter.

This wasn't a kashrut thing but one of convenience.

sneakermom

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 7:15 pm

I think cooking pareve, serving pareve, transferring pareve and keeping it pareve is a brain wiring thing.

My brain is so proud to have wrapped itself around milchig and fleishig. You add in pareve and the system crashes!

The milchig gets fleishig the pareve milchig and the fleishig pareve! (If that's at all possible)

So my reccomondation is that if you never felt a big pareve void in your life. Just leave it out. You won't miss what you can't manage to do anyway.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 7:19 pm

I have a pretty small kitchen and have milchig & pareve sinks separated by about an 18" counter where we usually put the mixer, and on the other side of the pareve sink is a corner and then a counter for the food processor & urn. Above that are all the baking supplies, and pareve utensils have their own upper & lower corner cabinets & a utensil drawer.

If you bake challah & cakes it's quite a pleasure. Otherwise, where do you put your dirty pareve stuff? Of course you can wash out your milchig sink but this makes things so much easier.

We have pareve measuring cups although we do have a couple of milchig sets too.

If you have the space and the funds, I would totally do it. What does another two feet of countertop gain you more?

amother

Teal

Wed, Jun 24 2015, 7:39 pm

I vote yes for parve. I wish I had a parve sink in my kitchen. I have a baking center (sink and oven) in my basement.
I would love to have a parve dishwasher and fantasize about getting an 18" on wheels but it's not in the budget right now. The parve sink can be used for checking and washing vegetable and fruit, baking, netillas yadayim (unless you have a sink in the dining room).
In the shtetl they didn't have washers and dryers either...fridges? mixers? air conditioners? cars? cell phones? vacuum cleaners? microwaves?
It's not being the superfrummiest; it's not creating new realities. we all have milchig, fleishig and parve (unless you are vegetarian). This is about how to prepare and handle these 3 categories in the easiest or most efficient way.