Interesting observation on imamother

imokay

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 8:14 am

What an awful and twisted story. How does anyone know what would have happened had the family not had another child?! Maybe they would have left the youngest of their existing children. Maybe they wouldn't have ever taken the trip in the first place and everyone would be alive. Maybe the fact that they had to delay departure due to childcare for their youngest caused them to be in the exact spot of the deadly accident?
But who can claim to know for sure and draw such a conclusion?!?!

PinkFridge

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 9:10 am

Hashem loves me wrote:

Oy.
I think you posted this story (or someone else did) a few years ago on this site. And I think I responded then too.
This story is proof of what? It's showing exactly the opposite of what you are trying to prove.

To me it shows clearly that they shouldn't have had that kid and they should have been on bc. What's so good about being the only child left in your family? That is so sad and nebach for the kid. I think all would have been better had they not had that kid and they all perished. So there'll be no one to say kaddish, maybe a relative could have done that. AT least there wouldn't be an orphan child who has to suffer for the rest of his life.

Look, I'm not comfortable with the story either.
But I know a lot of Holocaust survivors who were the lone survivors of the family. Tell that to them and their kids.
ETA: I see others replied already. (I like relish's post.) But I think my post is worthwhile too.

happybeingamom

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 9:44 am

boymom wrote:

for arguments sake, lets say that it says outright in the torah that bc is assur and then it says that if theres a matter of illness or some other major problem, then there's room for heterim . ok? got it? what do you do then? I would do the same thing that I do when I need a heter to call my doula on Shabbos. I mean- to use a phone is completely assur on Shabbos! how can a rav just decide that because I need a doula then I can call her??? can I say my rav knows better than g-d and he can let me use the phone. we don't say that. we use the phone on Shabbos cuz we asked a rav and he paskened.
so , based on the theory that bc is halachah toras moshe misinai- you can ask your rav, and YES, your rav can "interfere" with g-ds plans. he's not taking over g-d nor does he think he knows better than g-d.you know what he is? he's g-ds gift to Judaism. g-d put him on this world so that he can help us make halachic decisions that we can't make ourselves. without rabbanim, yiddishkeit would long be forgotten. where does the gemorah come from? its only because the rabbanim had the forsight to write it all down, lest it all be forgotten. without gemorah, there isn't torah.
so yes, halacha (whatever that is) can be "changed" for the moment by a competent rabbi.
btw, just a little story: someone came to rebbe and asked for a heter. rebbe said- if it would be halachah then I'd be able to work around it and give you a heter. but because its a minhag your talking about- I can't mess with minhagim.
point is - if you believe in rabbanim- they CAN interfere with halacha. yes they can.
can a rav make a mistake? I assume so. he is human. if he botched someone up, I feel for you, and maybe he wasn't qualified to be a rav, or just erred like me and you.

Your first paragraph I agree with.

I disagree that a Rav changes halacha, he knows halacha and how to apply it (that is not changing it) and therefore he paskens.

Hashem gave a Morah Horah a good brain (that is the gift) , but the Rav took this strength, became a Masmid, took Shimush with expirenced chachomim, dedicated his life to learning, forsaking more enjoyable time wasters and became the Posek that he is. He was not born this way.

Laiya

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:30 pm

boymom wrote:

Look, this is a frum website. I would be surprised if anyone on here took issue with the concept of asking a rav to issue a halachic psak or heter. That has absolutely nothing to do with "playing G-d"; it's interpreting halacha. That's the main role of our rabbanim.

The poster on the other thread said something completely different. She said that a rav knows what's "best" for you. She also said, bc is wrong because G-d knows what's best for you. Can't you see how these 2 statements are at odds? And how the implication that a human being can know better than Hashem (chvsh) would make frum readers uncomfortable?

WriterMom

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:43 pm

kb wrote:

I don't disagree with your feelings about the poor orphan. But I think there is no moral of the story. Because based on your logic, no one should bring any kids into the world because maybe the parents will be killed in a freak accident and the kids will be left orphans.

This reminds me of the "traveller was saved because the frum travel agent wouldn't book him a flight on shabbos and he didn't get on Flight 317" horror stories. Those don't work in my world, and my rabbi would no more tell a story like that than he would invoke the boogeyman to get a child to behave. But in many different worlds in the Jewish community stories and fables have tremendous symbolic importance, and that's not wrong, it's just a different culture.

What I take from the orphan story is that Hashem can create great things out of tragedy. The deaths of the orphan's parents and siblings was a tragedy, but BH, he was alive and continued his family. The moral is not "always have another baby in case he's the only survivor."

And in terms of rabbis and BC - if a rabbi can tell you not to use BC, why can't he tell you you must? I was discussing this with a rebbetzin a few years ago, and she said, in fact, the mitzvah to have children is one that you can try to do at different times in your life, and if this month or this year isn't right, it doesn't mean you'll never do it. On the other hand, if you are in such a state that a pregnancy would be harmful, the mitzvah not to jeopardize your life or health could mean that it is imperative not to become pregnant right now.

June

Sun, Jun 28 2015, 2:32 am

boymom wrote:

SNIP
so , based on the theory that bc is halachah toras moshe misinai- you can ask your rav, and YES, your rav can "interfere" with g-ds plans. he's not taking over g-d nor does he think he knows better than g-d.you know what he is? he's g-ds gift to Judaism. g-d put him on this world so that he can help us make halachic decisions that we can't make ourselves. without rabbanim, yiddishkeit would long be forgotten. where does the gemorah come from? its only because the rabbanim had the forsight to write it all down, lest it all be forgotten. without gemorah, there isn't torah.
so yes, halacha (whatever that is) can be "changed" for the moment by a competent rabbi.
btw, just a little story: someone came to rebbe and asked for a heter. rebbe said- if it would be halachah then I'd be able to work around it and give you a heter. but because its a minhag your talking about- I can't mess with minhagim.
point is - if you believe in rabbanim- they CAN interfere with halacha. yes they can.
can a rav make a mistake? I assume so. he is human. if he botched someone up, I feel for you, and maybe he wasn't qualified to be a rav, or just erred like me and you.

Oy. No, no, no.

Rabbanim do not and can not "change" or "interfere with" halachah. Halachah is immutable.

In the bedika case, the rav who gave OP the psak is learned in hilchos niddah and knows that in this woman's case, halachah only requires bedikas at the beginning and end of the 7 clean days. He did not change the halachah - he applied it differently in her case.

Because Judiasm is not a one-size-fits-all religion, halachah can be applied in many different ways, unique to each situation.