Need help with 5 yr old. Please!

amother

Blue

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 11:57 am

5 year old dd gets along fine at school, she has friends, and mostly follows rules. Never had a complaint from her teachers.
It did however, take almost two years before she would speak to her teachers, more then shaking her head, or one word answers.

Home however, is a totally different thing.
She has tantrums, argues about everything I say, intentionally bothers her younger siblings and is apathetic about it, can be impulsive, and can't seem to stop moving (unless she is doing an art project). Most of the time She throws toys and uses them inappropriately, except her doll and stroller. She knows how to play appropriately, but chooses not to. She needs melatonin to fall asleep, no matter how tired she is. Everything seems to be a fight with her. Morning to night.

I think I need to get her evaluated, but part of me thinks she is just difficult, since she does well in school, and she can behave well when she wants to.

Any suggestions? Is this normal for her age? Ahes my oldest, but my gut reaction is that it's not normal.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:05 pm

You are describing one of my kids. Is your child now socially appropriate? When my child was young he/she also didn't talk to teachers and now finally does, but is still somewhat socially awkward. My pediatrician thinks my kid might be ADD and that is how his frustration comes out.

Sorry no real advice, but thought I might share.

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:13 pm

Food?

Allergies

PANDAS?

Get her a doll and some stuffed animals.

She may have a low tolerance for the free-wheeling atmosphere at home and acts better in a structured environment where everything is more predictable, and a lot less is asked of her. In school she doesn't have to communicate; in fact her being quiet is a good thing.

Give her some kind of access to music. Sing with her. Music is communication that isn't verbal and its structure is obvious and pleasant. It is an antidote to being tongue tied and an antidote to messiness because it is structured.

She may also need a safe little clubhouse where the other children aren't allowed to go in and she can be by herself.

Art works for her, so give her more materials for that.

I am remembering Kimmelman's Bench. When you were sitting on it, nobody was allowed to talk to you, and didn't. You did your homework on it.

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:21 pm

I am not saying you are wrong, but these diagnostic words are just words, in this particular case. She is in the middle, so there may be no exact right word for her.

From what you say, she seems to be having a better time at school than home. That might be hurtful or feel insulting to you. Obviously it's not personal.

A practical, rather than diagnostic, approach might be useful now. You will see how it plays out later.

Somehow I am thinking she is afraid. Her diffidence with adults sounds like fear. Her acting like a baby by throwing toys might be a plea to be babied because she is afraid.

But I am wandering afield and I am not a medic or a professional in any way.

amother

Blue

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:24 pm

Dolly, what you are saying about being in a structured environment is true. Its even worse at home because I get so frustrated by her behavior, that I need a break and I Dont have the patience to sit and be attentive to her. As much as I try...

She was a premiee which I suspect only adds to the issue.

amother

Blue

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 1:30 pm

I don't think she is afraid of adults. She has wonderful relationships with adults she knows well. Its people who she didsnt know that she won't speak to. It can be the same with,kids she doesn't know, but she wants up.

Also, I noticed her bringing home things in her backpack that don't belong to her. She claims another girl puts them there. They are usually little Nick naks that one of her friends bring. I have to find out from the teacher what is happening. I always make her bring them back, but she tries to hide them and keep them. She once took extra art materials from school, like Pom poms and buttons. We made her return them. Her teacher let her keep one pom Pom.

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 2:17 pm

Please do the mechanical things I listed above including having her evaluated for PANDAS.

If you have a cat, please have her evaluated for Toxoplasmosis, or whatever it is. It can affect behavior. That doesn't have to mean that every cat has this. But it's something to rule out, if she has been around a cat, even somebody else's cat. Note that I do not have any dislike at all for cats.

Please get some kind of music player for her, right away.

You have mentioned invoking the professionals for an evaluation, or I wouldn't say anything like that. Since you have, I am going to agree with you, that professional help might be good.

The melt downs at home are probably related to being tired and hungry.

Give her something to snack on and a soft place to lie down (a blanket on the floor is fine) where lighting is low. This will teach her to self-soothe, after you have shown her how, several times. That may involve

Make sure she is not dehydrated, also.

I am no medic of any kind.

seeker

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 3:28 pm

What you are describing is not normal for this age. It could be your child does have some more difficult needs than typical, but if there is such a difference between school and home my guess is that a lot of this can be resolved with changes in parenting techniques. Especially as she's your first; even if you are a very talented parent you haven't had that much time to learn. Of course it is possible that all is not perfect in school and they just don't see it as enough of a problem to tell you. Or maybe she is just THAT good at holding it in in school and then has more to let out at home. But that's why I said "a lot" can be resolved with parenting strategies; not necessarily all.

My child definitely has more challenging behaviors at home than in school, partly because kids relax and let it out more at home and partly because I don't run my home with as much structure and experience as a seasoned preschool teacher. But they did see the same behaviors to a lesser extent in school and alerted us to the problems.

I also disagree with the "needs melatonin to fall asleep." Melatonin is not meant to be used as a frequent crutch. It's at most a short-term intervention, and many disagree with using it for children at all. It could be making her dependent on it. My child sometimes takes a very long time to fall asleep but that doesn't mean she "needs melatonin." She needs a lot of calming and often a lot of time, and a very regular routine and timing.

I think if you are concerned you should request an evaluation, but don't expect it to change your life. Expect to put in a LOT of work learning strategies that will be a better fit for your child's individual needs, which may or may not be clarified in your evaluation.

amother

Blue

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 4:14 pm

As far as the melatonin goes, we tried so many different techniques, and she would be exhausted but not fall asleep before midnight. The melatonin is with her dr's approval. On Pesach, we tried not to use it bc Of kitnios (our rav said we could use it if necessary). She stayed up till 2:30 at the Seder and another 30 minutes in bed before falling asleep with out it.
But the other nights she couldn't fall asleep, even really late, with out taking it.

sneakermom

Fri, Jun 26 2015, 7:04 pm

Kids that have trouble self regulating often do very well in school and are terrors at home.

They feel intimidated in school and act very inhibited or pressured to put on a good impression.

At home their facade falls away. What you are left with is a moody, restless kid who can turn a house upside down.

These kids do well in counseling and with some sort of natural remedy to calm them down. The counseling should be a safe place to let go of intense feelings and to teach self modulating techniques.