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Can u explain frum ppl being happy over gay marriage?
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amother
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Post Sun, Jun 28 2015, 11:41 pm
marina wrote:
Ok, just very simply. The First Amendment gives everyone the right to bow down to idols. And idolatry must be treated like any other religion. Isn't that an open stamp of approval to something that is roundly condemned and viewed as immoral from the Torah perspective?


No all it does is allow other's to do as they wish.
It does not redefine anything to accommodate them. In this case the definition of marriage which was used to refer to the unique relationship between man & woman a relationship which from a biological and emotional perspective is factually different then that of two of the same gender, was changed and redefined to accommodate them.
Again something that was noted in the dissents.
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amother
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Post Sun, Jun 28 2015, 11:44 pm
heidi wrote:
Obviously we run in different circles amother. The people I am talking about are perfectly happy eating so so kosher food, in short sleeves and low necklines and speaking lashon hara. No one has any desire to go to these shiurim galore of which you speak.


OK you got me,
People who could care less about eating food that is marginally kosher, could care less about Tznius and are perfectly content to violate the Laws of Loshon Hora on a daily basis are also fine with recognizing SSM.
And in other breaking news?
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amother
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Post Sun, Jun 28 2015, 11:46 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
Except in the case of the baker discrimination against GBLTs is illegal in the state where she had her business.

So in her State in order to operate her business she had to take part in a ceremony that compelled her to provide services in furtherance of a ceremony that violated her core beliefs.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 28 2015, 11:56 pm
amother wrote:
So in her State in order to operate her business she had to take part in a ceremony that compelled her to provide services in furtherance of a ceremony that violated her core beliefs.


Actually she was asked to bake a cake a wedding reception. The prospective customers did not ask her to participate in the ceremony (IIRC they had been married out of state) or attend the reception.
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amother
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Post Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:00 am
In other words she was asked to provide services to a ceremony she did not believe in.
And again from a Halachic perspective it is probably worse to bake the cake and not attend then to attend!
By attending one can argue they are not taking part in enabling it to happen, however the one who bakes the cakes for the ceremony is taking part in it in a real way.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:07 am
amother wrote:
In other words she was asked to provide services to a ceremony she did not believe in.
And again from a Halachic perspective it is probably worse to bake the cake and not attend then to attend!
By attending one can argue they are not taking part in enabling it to happen, however the one who bakes the cakes for the ceremony is taking part in it in a real way.


The ceremony had already taken place, out of state. Why are you so insistent that the baker was required to attend the ceremony?
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:10 am
amother wrote:
In other words she was asked to provide services to a ceremony she did not believe in.
And again from a Halachic perspective it is probably worse to bake the cake and not attend then to attend!
By attending one can argue they are not taking part in enabling it to happen, however the one who bakes the cakes for the ceremony is taking part in it in a real way.


I wonder how much significance a cake has in halacha. It's not a religious symbol, or integral to the ceremony. I've never heard "with this cake I thee wed", but then again, I've never been to a gay wedding.

I'm not disagreeing with your point, that forcing someone to take part in an act that goes against his beliefs is a violation of his civil rights, just pointing out that we don't know how much significance a piece of mezonos has in halachah.

Which is why I said upthread, we will ask our shailos when we need to cater gay weddings, and we will deal with the problems as they arise. It's not one of the Big Three, and we will figure it all out. I'm not worried.

I'd be more worried if the government begins to limit our freedoms.
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