Does this sound fishy?

shoshanim999

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 9:57 am

Many times credit card companies have special offers where a person can earn, say, $500 if they sign up for the card, and use it for a few months. I'm assuming thats the simple reason why the friend wants your dh to sign up. I'm not understanding at all the other part of the story. It seems both DH and the friend have accounts in the U.S. and Israel. Why cant the friend transfer money from his own U.S. account to his own Israel account? Why is it easier for dh to transfer? I'd like to understand this better in order to get a feel for whats going on here.

princessleah

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:35 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

I don't think there is a problem with "manufactured spending". Credit card companies make these offers and try to get people to sign up. Some of those people won't be able to to pay their entire bill on time and will be socked with outrageous interest fees. Also the credit card company does little (unfair) tricks to suck money from people. I say if we can LEGALLY extract money from them by taking advantage of sign up bonus offers- Kol Hakavod!

It's not legal to extract money like this. It's not legal to sell points. It's not legal to open a credit card in someone else's name. They can't put anything in writing. What's gonna happen, they make a contract about this, and if the friend is in breach, the DH brings him to court? Then they will both be arrested for bank fraud. This whole thing is illegal and there's no way to ensure the friend will pay him. The only thing you could do is have the friend transfer some more $$ into DH's account and hold on to that money until you're sure the card has been paid off.
Does your DH care about breaking the law? Is that an argument you can use with him or no?

ra_mom

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:45 am

I know someone personally whose life was literally ruined by this. Credit card bills were rackes up on his name in order to aquire points. The person who "borrowed" the credit card for this was unable to pay the credit card bills and the credit of the person I know was killed since he himself did not have the means to pay back the credit card companies.
After months of collection calls nonstop, the other guy offered him partnership in his business instead. The business was a dud, and it only made matters worse for him.
This person I know went into deep depression. Eventually he became suicidal. The marriage he had before all this could not withstand all this and eventually they divorced after many years of marriage. The children are hurting so bad.
And the collection agencies are still running after him.
I am writing under my own sn so you can pm if you need to.
Hug

ra_mom

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:55 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

Lets not blow things out of proportion. Every credit card has a spending limit so in theory that amount plus interest is the max risk involved if the friend completely abandons him and essentially hangs him out to dry. If the limit is a few thousand dollars, lets not make this out to be that "lives were ruined". Please.

$80k in debt, plus interest and late penalties added each month over the last 2 years, is life is ruined. And if one does not have the ability to even make the minimum payments then... Not being able to pick up any calls, keeping doors locked... Not bring able to sleep at night...

shoshanim999

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:14 am

You can always find an extreme example where sometimes things go horribly wrong. For that to happen another person would have to commit fraud and open up credit cards and take out bank loans in someone else's name. In theory if you ever put your date of birth and social security number on any document, then your subject to the person who is reviewing the document, to steal your info and turn your life upside down. I agree if we will worry about the most extreme possible case then I guess don't do favors for anyone because who knows what might happen. Also, someone mentioned that selling points is illegal. Simply wrong.

shalhevet

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:16 am

Once you start with something not quite above board (even if it's technically legal) you never know where it will lead. For example, what if the Israeli tax authorities see these sums in your account and decide you are hiding earnings?

I have a friend who is a SAHM. Someone asked her to do a "favor" and take the checks they got and put them in her account and give them the money in cash - I think they gave her a commission for her help. Anyway one day she went to register for some benefit and she couldn't claim it, because they told her she was registered as working - turns out the organization she got the checks from had registered her as their employee.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:26 am

shalhevet wrote:

Especially in Israel where the banks keep such close track of everything! I remember when we set up our account in Israel they asked us how much they thought we'd be putting in every month, because if too many months went by with significantly more we'd be flagged...

princessleah

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:28 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

You're right, I looked it up, it's not illegal but it's against the terms of every airline ff program.

Quote:

Is This Legal?

There are no US laws (except in Utah) that prevent you from selling your miles to others. So you can’t be charged with a crime if you do this.

However, you’re breaking the rules of the airline’s frequent flyer program. For example, American Airlines AAdvantage program terms and conditions say:

At no time may AAdvantage mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product, or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle, or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorney’s fees incurred in enforcing this rule.

And United Airlines Mileage Plus rules are very clear:

The sale or barter or attempted sale or barter of any such mileage, certificates, awards or benefits other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United is expressly prohibited. Any mileage, certificates, awards or benefits transferred, assigned or sold in violation of the Program Rules, in addition to exposing the member to the penalties otherwise associated with violations, may be confiscated or canceled. The use of award tickets that have been acquired by purchase, barter or other conduct in violation of Program Rules may result in termination of membership, cancellation of accrued mileage, certificates, awards or benefits, confiscation of the tickets, denial of boarding with respect to the ticket holder, and, at United’s discretion, completion of the travel only upon payment of an applicable fare.

All major US airlines have similar language in their frequent flyer program rules.

LittleDucky

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:41 am

shoshanim999 wrote:

Sorry but no. I understand that people are upset at credit card companies for their terms. But you agreed to get one. No one forced you to take that one or any other credit card. And if they are doing something illegal-there are agencies who will help. Not sure who exactly as we barely use our card, don't do anything funny with it, and pay it off as we use it in full.
And many of these "tricks" aren't so clear cut legal. They are definitely not what the companies intended and therefore not very kosher.

self-actualization

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:45 am

There's a bigger/different issue here than merely is it ok to do credit card scams.

The issue is - how do you tell someone else (your DH) that what he wants to do is stupid?

For some things, we say nothing ... e.g. you can overeat on Shabbos and get a stomachache; I'm not going to prevent that. You can stay up late and be tired the next morning. You can pay $90 to watch the Mayweather-Paquio fight on pay per view ... I don't agree with any of these ideas but because you are an adult I treat you like an adult and let you make your own decisions.

In this case however, OP wants to instruct her husband how to behave. That's the problem. My advice would be to say something like this (and this what I do in real life):

"You are an adult and you can make your own decisions. I personally feel scared about this scheme and if it were me I would never do it. In addition I feel like the possible upside is so small and the possible downside is huge [shades of my heroine, the wife of On ben Peles]. However, because you are adult you can make your own decision."

Another idea is to go to a neutral 3rd party like a financially savvy brother-in-law or friend. We have had plenty of Shabbos guests ask us financial advice and it's a good thing they did - my DH and I are in the industry many years and know what is safe and what's totally not safe.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:57 am

Good way to lose a friendship.

Tell your husband to tell his friend that it's all too complicated and he is so busy now that he just can't wrap his mind around it and it's just all too too.

The friend is trying to save wire fees. Yes, they are a little pricey.

But friendship is more valuable.

Your dh is not this guy's administrative assistant or secretary. He has a job.

Even brothers should stay out of each other's pockets and even brothers, even twins, can sometimes stiff each other just from insanity. See Cain and Abel.

So he's a brother. That doesn't change anything.

Tell your husband to protect the relationship by saying no.

I have not read the thread but the answer to your title question, just from the sound of your original post, is yes. I cannot bear to read the thread.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Tue, Jun 30 2015, 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total

Mimisinger

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 12:03 pm

self-actualization wrote:

I don't agree. Something this big affects both husband and wife, esp. since this money pays the family bills.

All the above examples you gave were small. A stomach ache, being tired and $90. Persumably, OP is talking about thousands of dollars and credit which is worth everything. This is not the same.

In a marriage, there should be an equal partnership. And OP, just say no.

youngishbear

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 12:11 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Well yeah you should be careful who you share your ssn with. And plenty of people use a made up birthday for their gmail account. It's called prudence.

And never ever do favors that involve lending your name or ssn for financial "stuff".

Or carrying packages you haven't personally packed or inspected, across borders.

Etc.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Jun 30 2015, 12:11 pm

"The issue is - how do you tell someone else (your DH) that what he wants to do is stupid?"

By saying "er, I don't this is ok. No." (Sideways head shake.)

Then, after that, not arguing.

No proper man goes forward, after his wife says that. She does not need to make her case and should not, because it only weakens her position. Her position is, "I am the extra nose around here and I say it's not ok. That's enough."

This only works if she has not shried him about every little thing.

But nobody on Imamother is stupid enough to squander their political capital that way. You only get so many of those vetoes and they must be used extremely sparingly.

There is no point having a wife if she is not The Other Nose.

Otherwise, hire a maid. A wife is not a maid.