Richies: Do you really rock life's expenses?

zaq

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 7:02 pm

amother wrote:

We don't struggle at all, BH, at this point in our lives. But that still means living within our means. Dh earns around $750K. We pay full tuition for multiple kids; we have a special needs kid who costs approx the amount of 3 kids. We live in a very nice house, but it's not some mansion. 3500 sq ft, done nicely. See have nice cars.

Can I afford a full-time maid or babysitter? I guess if I wanted that but I prefer to have more money in the bank, especially since one of my kids' future may be more uncertain and he may need continuous help. I hope I can travel when my kids are older. I hope I can help them out financially when they are older, within reason. I'd rather save for that. I'm not a fancy person. I shop at Target, I don't get manicures, I wear mainly tichels not $$ sheitels etc

We earn a lot, but seriously, after taxes and all the other costs of life, we're not exactly affording chagim in Israel and summers away abroad. Even at this income level I can't just go buy a Chloe bag without blinking an eye. There are many different levels of wealth. You could always have more, you could always have less.

Also, the reality is that dh works nonstop to earn that salary and doesn't have enough time off for all that.

You are choosing money in the bank over vacations abroad. That is very wise on your part, much wiser than people who spend everything they have (which is technically living within their means. Or living up to their means.) Still, you CAN afford vacations abroad. You cannot buy a Chloe bag without blinking, but after a few blinks you could buy it if you really wanted it. You are simply CHOOSING to bank the money instead. This is very different from being literally unable to afford.

(Not that I feel sorry for anyone if her measure of "being unable to afford" is a Chloe bag. It's not exactly the same as being unable to afford new shoes when the old ones wear out, or having to choose between getting root canal and paying the rent.)

amother

Smokey

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 7:38 pm

PP is right, sorry - we could go away more than we do which is very minimal. We can actually afford these things. We've never even been to Israel as a family at all - my special needs kiddo can't handle it right now. But I just meant that even at out level of wealth, spending $15K on Pesach is not nothing. A live-in for $30K is not nothing. That kind of thing. We can afford more I just meant it's still a significant chunk out of our earnings. We're not millionaires.

My dh buys me one nice piece of jewelry a year for around $1K, that's my one true extravagance and it's more for him than me. It makes him feel good. What makes me feel good? I can my my overpriced ice cream for $5/pint whenever I want and not think twice. I can go buy an overpriced book at Barnes and Nobles instead of waiting for it for months at the library on hold.

Little things...but I guess that's my nature . Little things means more to me than big things. My whole life (I grew up at a very diff. income level in a very unhappy home), I envied happiness and stability much more than wealth.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 7:47 pm

amother wrote:

I can also buy over priced books and ice cream. I can even get the jewelry once a year. My dh makes much less than 750,000. 750,000 is wealthy enough that even if you have 10 kids, you will not be struggling.

heidi

Wed, Jul 01 2015, 11:38 pm

As someone who lives in Israel I am wondering what makes people in America "rich".
I see how my friends send kids to Israel for the year ($25000) and then come to visit at a hotel for chag with their other 5 kids ($40,000) while still paying day school tuitions ($10-30,000 per year per kid depending on age of child). While paying mortgage on a huge home.
Granted, I'm talking about friends from the five towns, but are they all really making $750,000 a year???

Jeanette

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 9:57 am

amother wrote:

Honestly? We're far from the rich category but I would also pop for a $15 book or $5 ice cream occasionally. Treats like this (not every day of course) makes the rest of life more manageable. Woohoo, we're rich!

Fox

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 12:35 pm

amother wrote:

I'm the poster with the thirty percent charity.

I don't understand how our charitable donations can be limited by halacha. It's our money to do as we please with it. I understand having to give a minimum, but not to put a cap on it. That just makes no sense. What's the reasoning behind it?

There are a number of reasons. The first, obviously, is that you are not allowed to potentially impoverish yourself. Secondary reasons include not raising the overall lifestyle level in your community beyond what others can afford and not allowing organizations and individuals in your community to become too dependent on your tzeddekah.

However, these are halachos that require interpretation based on an individual's circumstances. I know several extremely wealthy people who consult daas Torah before giving anything beyond a generous-but-token contribution to any cause. They want to make sure that they are not accidentally creating more problems than they're solving.

People who can give significant tzeddekah are often encouraged to invest part of their tzeddekah money in enterprises that will employ Yidden rather than simply donating it. This is usually harder since it involves researching potential investments and providing guidance and/or supervision. But it is considered preferable because it actually creates an exponential effect: Jews employed in these enterprises can now give their own maaser -- in addition to that given by owner/invester.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 1:38 pm

amother wrote:

Your husband makes $750K, you don't go on family vacations, no live-in, your excited to be able to buy 5$ ice cream and a book from Barnes and Nobles, and your not millionaires??? Something's sounds off here....

amother

Smokey

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 1:46 pm

I said we live in a very nice house and have nice cars and have amazing savings in the bank plus insane expenses for a special needs son. That's where our money is. We otherwise live simply because we're down to earth like that. Wink

The books and ice cream was not to indicate that that is all we can afford, it was to illustrate that we are happy generally with small every day pleasures versus larger materialistic things. It was just a slightly tongue in cheek sentence, please don't nitpick it.

amother

Smokey

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 1:56 pm

The defensive undertones are for a very good reason. When people think you're rich this is what they believe: that you could possibly NOT afford something.

Yes, there is a LOT, BH, you can afford, but the salary is not some bottomless pit that can pay for every whim. So you have to think about purchases and wants versus needs, just like most of the world. And if you're a simpler person, you end up spending less, and have a nice cushion in the bank. I can't imagine it's an uncommon scenerio.

Fox

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 4:21 pm

amother wrote:

The books and ice cream was not to indicate that that is all we can afford, it was to illustrate that we are happy generally with small every day pleasures versus larger materialistic things.

Actually, I think this is very smart. I grew up in a family that had plenty of disposable income. "Rich" is obviously very subjective, but I was an only child and both my parents worked at professional jobs (at a time when most mothers didn't work outside the home). My parents had also been married for almost a decade before I was born, during which time they'd saved money, invested in real estate, etc.

But despite our resources, their spending habits were (and still are!) somewhat bizarre. For example, we took a 2-week winter vacation every year in the Caribbean -- usually a cruise. But go for ice cream? Never! That was a "waste of money." My father was very into fine dining and would spend freely and even travel to go to some fancy new restaurant. But order pizza? Not on your life!

It gave me a very skewed and not-so-healthy approach to money.

My adult life has been just the opposite. While I haven't been nearly as financially successful as my parents, I don't mind spending money on small treats. Frankly, I think my kids and I are a lot happier with more frequent small treats than fewer big-ticket expenditures.

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 4:36 pm

I think it also depends a lot on where you live and the standards of a neighborhood and community if you consider yourself rich. My father earns around 1 million a year ( I don't know what it is at this point in time it might be slightly more). However due to the community they live in they aren't considered well off much less rich. Growing up I always felt like one of the poor kids and looking back I am horrified at how I felt. But the reality is I was one of the poor kids as most of my friends parents were multimillionaires or billionaires. My parents pay/paid a small fortune in tuition for school and camp, not to mention property taxes and so on. I wish my parents had chosen to live in a different neighborhood and sent me to different schools, but they didn't. As an adult I know many people who felt that they grew up never feeling deprived or poor even though their parents made significantly less than mine. The amount a person earns does not always determine how rich a person is.

sneakermom

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 5:01 pm

Fox wrote:

I'm the same way. I have but one good sheital and pair of shoes but I take my kids out for pizza once a week and buy a salad or slurpee here or there. And on Midwinter break we don't go to florida but we go to a pottery place and make beautiful serving dishes for Shabbos!

It's a quality of life we are looking for here. No feast or famine.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 5:44 pm

amother wrote:

Since you didn't define nice income, I'll use my own definition and put ourselves in that category.

Yes we can manage all expenses. We give about 30% of our income to tzedakah, pay a boatload of taxes, put away a nice chunk for savings, and live off the rest. We buy and do most of the things we want to, but we don't have the need for very expensive things so that's not a problem.

I really wonder why you would call yourself rich when you have such difficulty with your expenses. Even we don't consider ourselves rich and we live the lifestyle I described above.

I'll second that. I B"H can afford every expense in my life and then some. I can basically buy whatever I want, but I don't want very much. And I also don't think of myself using the word "rich" for some reason. maybe comfortable seems more accurate to me, since it really describes my life. Oh, and I do NOT like your subject line - RICHIES. I was like "who's Richie??" not sure why I care but doesn't hit me in a positive way...