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Forum -> Household Management
Asking housekeeper to dress modestly
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shoshana2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 09 2015, 10:01 pm
Sorry-I meant sweet potato- LOL
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wantavaca




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 09 2015, 10:42 pm
I used to feel uncomfortable telling them to dress modestly but im so used to it its totally not a big deal.
if I like them at the interview and I think I may wanna hire them, I say-you look beautiful but in this house, youll need to wear looser fitting clothes and cover up your chest, wear longer sleeves etc...I say in spanish- ropa mas modesta (more modest clothing)...they all totally get it.
my lady then came in on the first day with tight pants so before she left I explained it again nicely.
she offered to wear a uniform, but I told her its not necessary. Now she figured it out and comes dressed appropriately.
I cant stomach a trampy looking lady in my house helping me with the kids etc...
I would even offer them 30 dollars to buy some new tshirts and pants from walmart or something.
Think of it as a regular job that has a dress code.
I am a bais yaakov teacher- would the principal be happy if I showed up with half my hair out?
would I be unsulted if she gave me a handbook with guidelines before the year started?
no.
its not personal.
youre paying her. you lay down the rules. she will decide if she still wants the job or not.
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amother
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Post Thu, Jul 09 2015, 10:58 pm
octopus wrote:
well then you are not familiar with what exactly encompasses se-zxual harassment. If a male tells a female employee to dress a certain way- even if it is to "cover up" more -yes, that is sesxual harassment.


You are wrong. According to the EEOC it is only se-zxual harassment if he is making se-zxual comments about the way she is dressed.
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Carmen Luna




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 12:51 am
nothing wrong to tell her nicely, IMO. My cleaning lady is a young 24 year old who, according to her watsapp profile pix, likes to dress trashy and frequent clubs after a full day of work (not judging, just saying the type)
Anyhoo, her 1st day on the job, she came dressed with a tank top. DH right away asked me to ask her nicely to always wear modest clothing in our house.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 1:14 am
amother wrote:
You've got to be kidding me! He isn't telling them to take off their clothes. He is telling them that to work in our house, they must cover their breasts and their tush. No shorts or low tanks.

If he is s-exually harassing them, her is doing a bad job.


How a frum woman is completely clueless to the fact that a man talking to a woman about covering her breasts and tush in his house because they are too enticing is certainly s-xual and possibly s-xual harassment, is beyond me.

Woman up sweetie and talk to your cleaning ladies yourself.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 2:26 am
dancingqueen wrote:
How a frum woman is completely clueless to the fact that a man talking to a woman about covering her breasts and tush in his house because they are too enticing is certainly s-xual and possibly s-xual harassment, is beyond me.

Woman up sweetie and talk to your cleaning ladies yourself.

I don't know if it's harassment, but it's definitely cringe-worthy.

Do it yourself, and in person, not by SMS. Do it matter-of-factly, not apologetically or weirdly.

Have a tee shirt or housecoat or apron available in case she forgets.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 3:30 am
If you're going to ask her to have a dress code, I think you should supply something, whether it is a housecoat, kitchen robe, uniform or give her some cash for a couple of long sleeved t shirts and loose pants.

It isn't like they are making a big salary where they can afford to splash out on new clothes.

I know lots of people who do this but they supply the housecoat or "maid's robe", the ugly blue uniform dress that was advertised extensively a few years ago.
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amother
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Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 5:56 am
dancingqueen wrote:
How a frum woman is completely clueless to the fact that a man talking to a woman about covering her breasts and tush in his house because they are too pubic
enticing is certainly s-xual and possibly s-xual harassment, is beyond me.

Woman up sweetie and talk to your cleaning ladies yourself.


Stop spreading stupidity. You totally don't understand se-xual harassment. It depends how something is said whether it is harassment or not.

DH doesn't say it in a se-xual manner. Men are allowed to speak to female employees regarding a dress code as long as they don't se-xually harass them. Duh!
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Rebesq




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 6:22 am
amother wrote:
Stop spreading stupidity. You totally don't understand se-xual harassment. It depends how something is said whether it is harassment or not.

DH doesn't say it in a se-xual manner. Men are allowed to speak to female employees regarding a dress code as long as they don't se-xually harass them. Duh!


Not stupidity at all. I did employment law for years and you would not believe what is considered harassment and what types of claims we had to settle. All you need is one person in EEOC to disagree with you and you have a problem. The clmste is very pro employee especially now with immigration not being enforced additionally why would you want your husband to speak to her. He shouldn't be looking.

Sweet potatoe - I would be your new BFF based on that comment. I can't stop laughing.
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amother
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Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 7:25 am
Rebesq wrote:
Not stupidity at all. I did employment law for years and you would not believe what is considered harassment and what types of claims we had to settle. All you need is one person in EEOC to disagree with you and you have a problem. The clmste is very pro employee especially now with immigration not being enforced additionally why would you want your husband to speak to her. He shouldn't be looking.

Sweet potatoe - I would be your new BFF based on that comment. I can't stop laughing.


You can also get one person at EEOC to say this is SH when a female says so also. Welcome to the new climate.

You should not be criticizing my DH. DH hires the ladies and pays them. He has exactly the same rights as a female employer despite frivolous lawsuits. He speaks to them directing them in their tasks. Perhaps both males and females should record conversations telling the ladies the dress code.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 9:49 am
I'"m very much not from NY so I wouldn't know, but enforcing a dress code is NOT s-xual harassment... or harassment at all... but very bad taste from a frum man and I pray to G-d he mentions no tush...

You could have said it from start, making it not personal.
I wouldn't say it's a religious home here, sounds very haughty and you never know she may be a devoted "whatever". Even a (non tznius but) MO yid.

You can also choose to not have a model for a cleaning lady but a regular looking person... who doesn't prance..
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 10:21 am
imamom7 wrote:
How's this? Hi I won't be home when you come but my husband will let you in and I'll come home in middle. I'll leave you a note on the table. Also I hope you don't mind, but being that this is a religious home, I would really appreciate if you would not wear shorts or tank tops. I don't mind if you bring something to change into here. Thank you so much!


And ask her what temperature she'd like the thermostat at. Unless she doesn't like it cold, you want to knock it down a degree or two.

ETA: I didn't mean knock it down below what she says. Just saying that if she doesn't say, or you forget to ask, please make sure it's cool enough with the extra layer.


Last edited by PinkFridge on Fri, Jul 10 2015, 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 10:22 am
DrMom wrote:
I don't know if it's harassment, but it's definitely cringe-worthy.

Do it yourself, and in person, not by SMS. Do it matter-of-factly, not apologetically or weirdly.

Have a tee shirt or housecoat or apron available in case she forgets.


You can get cheap, inexpensive tee shirts anywhere. Make sure she knows it's brand new and dedicated for her use alone.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 11:09 am
octopus wrote:
well then you are not familiar with what exactly encompasses se-zxual harassment. If a male tells a female employee to dress a certain way- even if it is to "cover up" more -yes, that is sesxual harassment.


I work in an office that is almost 90% male. If someone was dressing inappropriately I would think it would be okay for a male manager to say something (like no shorts, longer sleeves, etc).

I still think a wife should be the one to say it.

Can you buy some light weight\ short sleeve snap smocks for her and offer them to her to wear when she is cleaning so she shouldn't mess up her clothing.

I wouldn't bring religion into the statement. I would also say it to her rather then through text or a note. I think it can be taken the wrong way otherwise. Its easier to be sensitive when speaking.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 1:15 pm
sweetpotato wrote:
Your cleaning woman prances around your house?


I always prance, both before I scrub the toilet and before I wash the floor. Surely, I'm not the only one?
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Shmaichel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 2:05 pm
My mother always gave her cleaning helpers a light loose/ long shirt or robe to wear while in our house. That was the 'uniform'. It was washed weekly and kept right outside our door upstairs where they'd put it on and keep their stuff. It was accepted nicely especially when they saw we all dressed modestly too.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 3:33 pm
amother wrote:
Stop spreading stupidity. You totally don't understand se-xual harassment. It depends how something is said whether it is harassment or not.

DH doesn't say it in a se-xual manner. Men are allowed to speak to female employees regarding a dress code as long as they don't se-xually harass them. Duh!


LOL, is that why you have your dh speak to the cleaning ladies, because if you disagree with anyone you call them stupid? I've taken that standard online s-xual harassment course that everyone who works for a corporate company in America has to take. I'm not going to keep explaining why a man talking to an employee about covering her boobs and tush because they are provocative is inherently speaking in a s-xual manner.

So what you want or rather delegate to your dh if you will, but I still find it odd that a frum lady doesn't understand why this is inappropriate.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 10 2015, 6:12 pm
It's one thing to say " this is our uniform, plse wear it." or even "this is not work-appropriate attire." It's another to say: "mmmmm, your low cleavage is turning me on, please wear this shawl next time."
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 11 2015, 4:16 pm
Providing a uniform- I.e. Work smock- makes the most sense to me. No need for her to get an entirely new wardrobe because of her job. It's also less personal- more like 'This is what's worn for this job' rather than 'Your clothes are offensive. Please change.'
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 1:57 pm
marina wrote:
I always prance, both before I scrub the toilet and before I wash the floor. Surely, I'm not the only one?


Just like they taught us in seminary! It's a madreigah I can only aspire to.
Not worthy
(But seriously though, it is worth thinking about.)
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