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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Want to start school/program - ISO input and experiences
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 10:53 am
amother wrote:
pathways was started as a takeoff of ohr halimud, for kids with reading disabilities,

but being a new school they got a mix of kids

I'm not sure what's mainstream about it, from what I understand, it's a small self contained program

What else do you know about it? Do you know who started it? Do they provide high level academics and professional social/behavioral skills help? I am not going to go into detail here but my impression in the past has been that schools setting out for kids with reading disabilities end up with an overall special ed feel, even though many people with dyslexia are perfectly intelligent. That's just hat seems to happen in theses schools. Though I wouldn't mind hearing that the landscape has changed, I'm just a little skeptical. Also wary lest my own school go down the same road.
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Kol Hadassa




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 11:44 am
I opened Kol Hadassa 3 years ago in Israel. I've learnt a lot along the way. It sounds like we do stuff that is similar to what you are describing. I'm not sure if I can help (different countries have very different bureaucracy) but if I can, feel free to ask me specifics. For example: we opened as a non-profit until we had enough students to officially become a registered school. Is that a helpful tidbit?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 11:53 am
Kol Hadassa wrote:
I opened Kol Hadassa 3 years ago in Israel. I've learnt a lot along the way. It sounds like we do stuff that is similar to what you are describing. I'm not sure if I can help (different countries have very different bureaucracy) but if I can, feel free to ask me specifics. For example: we opened as a non-profit until we had enough students to officially become a registered school. Is that a helpful tidbit?

So your bureaucracy experience might not be helpful but I would still love if you could share what went into planning your program, how it is set up, how it works, what works well for this type of school, etc! Thanks!
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 9:13 pm
amother wrote:
pathways was started as a takeoff of ohr halimud, for kids with reading disabilities,

but being a new school they got a mix of kids

I'm not sure what's mainstream about it, from what I understand, it's a small self contained program


It was advertised as a mainstream school. The word mainstream was in their ads.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 9:27 pm
seeker wrote:
What else do you know about it? Do you know who started it? Do they provide high level academics and professional social/behavioral skills help?

I am not going to go into detail here but my impression in the past has been that schools setting out for kids with reading disabilities end up with an overall special ed feel, even though many people with dyslexia are perfectly intelligent. That's just hat seems to happen in theses schools. Though I wouldn't mind hearing that the landscape has changed, I'm just a little skeptical. Also wary lest my own school go down the same road.


When a child does not have a known disability, or even if they do and the parent does not want others to know about it, a parent wants to be able to say that they send the children to a school that has a good name, with great "perfect" kids. They don't their kid to be thought of as a problem kid.

When applying to camps, high schools, seminary, beis medrash, and for shidduchim, and even in casual conversation, one of the first questions that is asked is which school the child is in, and often a child is judged by the school that they are in.

So it is best for the school to have a reputation of having "perfect" kids in addition to working with reading disabilities.

One of the advantages of Ptach, for example, is that it's in a mainstream yeshiva and bais yaakov, so a parent could say their child is in Chaim Berlin or Bais Yaakov D'Rav Meir, instead of saying Ptach.

However, Ptach does not work with children with behavioral difficulties (only with learning differences).

One of the big issues with sending to special ed-type of schools is that it is extremely expensive for the parent. Although they try to sue the board of ed to pay for it, they don't always win, and the parent could be left owing a lot of money.

I would like to see mainstream schools that have a reputation as being a great school for great kids that have no issues, and yet at the same time, they work with children that need more help, without being prohibitively expensive.

I thought Bais Yaakov Boro Park meets this need for girls, and there is no school like that for boys. BYBP takes girls of all types and has many services.
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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 12 2015, 10:21 pm
Add me to the list of moms who would be interested in something like this for my child. My son is very bright, but needs extra help planning his day around his gross motor skills. This is the case with many kids with Spina Bifida. So please make sure it's accessible... Elevator. No stairs. 32" doorways. Google "universal design." StrivRight seems like a good example of what you should go for - they are for kids with hearing issues but who could also be bright and mainstreamed, and offer everything. And they have an amazing new building that is totally accessible. (And they are having difficulty with funding. Not to be negative...)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 13 2015, 11:42 am
I see the people who made dcs' school struggle daily and some quit... it's a calling... to quote a rebbe I spoke to about something else "if you don't feel the itch don't scratch"... don't do it unless YOU MUST.

Why do you think we don't do it lol
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naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 13 2015, 11:59 am
I would love love a jewish NEST program but it would be crazy expensive!!
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Mon, Jul 13 2015, 12:02 pm
I don't think this is what you are looking for - but in Baltimore there is Jewels inclusive preschool. http://www.jewelsschool.org/

My DH got a call recently from an old friend of his he hadn't spoken to in years. He is opening a new school. He said the amount of money needed is huge. Regular school starting with 2 grades. He raises $2k a day. He said sometimes it takes 50 phone calls and sometimes 1.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 13 2015, 5:56 pm
From the sound of it, you want to serve a difficult niche. Not difficult in terms of the kids--difficult in terms of making it work. These are kids who don't necessarily fit into a typical yeshiva classroom, but may not even have needs that rise to IEP level in many areas. (Caveat: NYS seems to be a bit more generous in granting IEPs than my state.) Or if they do, the fact that they can be accommodated in a mainstream classroom with adaptations means it's much harder to argue for funding--it's a setting that can be provided in the public system.

THis is why programs of this type are so hard to find: they're more expensive than a typical yeshiva setting but not intensive enough for people to win a court case most of the time.

You'd also need to target a little better. ASD NEST is a very different program from small group self contained--it's considered smaller classes by NYC DOE standards but it's still a larger class. It's expensive, because it's integrated co-teaching, so you need a SpEd and general ed teacher who can work together effectively. So you also need to get the yeshiva on board for this and you need to confront the unfortunate stigma that some people still have about having SN kids in the class.

You also don't necessarily want a mixed disabilities class--just because they're all "higher functioning" doesn't mean they have the same types of needs.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Mon, Jul 13 2015, 9:10 pm
I'm looking around for a program that would fit my child's needs. He is very bright but in need of guidance in the social arena - high functioning asd.

To me the ideal would be a professionally run program from within a well established school. I would only entertain an inclusion type of program, as it is vital that he be surrounded for a significant part of the day with typically developing children. Without this, there would be no one to model off of.
There would be discreet pull outs if necessary, but most of the intervention would happen in the regular classroom - where there would be a trained teacher's assistant and if necessary a shadow (you could have quite a high ratio per shadow if you have high functioning children). A shadow would be there to help children navigate the social aspects of learning and wouldn't be soley interacting with the "special kids", but may be helping to balance the class socially in a very subtle way. The kids wouldn't think of the shadow as such, but rather as a teacher's assistant.
All kids benefit from a social skills curriculum, so this type of program could be attractive to parents of the typically developing kids as well - it all depends how it's packaged.

I have been looking around in my state, but have yet to find the right program for my child Sad Some programs have children with more severe needs, some with pure learning needs, but little focus on social skills. I really don't know where to put our child come 1st grade!

I really hope that you are matzliach with your endeavor!!
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oohlala




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:58 am
Hi, I am currently involved in completing my dissertation in school leadership.
My off the cuff advice would be to first write a mission statement, as someone else mentioned. Really clarify what this school would be like and who it would be for. Include hashkafa, and any other thing parents would want to know about the school. Check out web sites of other schools to get a good feel of what a solid mission statement looks like. Then, before you do anything else, I would speak to a consultant. I know a few names of consultants who specialize in yeshivas and day schools. It makes sense to pay them for a few hours of their time just to see if this is an idea that will work and to give you some preliminary guidance. If you come to the conclusion that you are really doing this...I highly recommend working with a consultant all the way. Good luck!
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:05 pm
Hi all
Just popping in to say I am still here and reading all replies. Just doing too much mental processing to answer on the spot. Very interesting to hear all views. Many thanks to all who PM'ed. Keep it coming, all our brains together will surely come up with something that can help the world!
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21young




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:46 pm
As far as I know StrivRite in Brooklyn and The Special Children's Center in Lakewood both have programs similar to what you describe, for ages 3-5. The goal is to have the children mainstreamed when they leave the program. They have children who are very high functioning, but need a little extra help. They also have integrated classes with regular children, and there is a lot of integration going on throughout the day. The Center just got their licensing to expand the school to older grades starting this coming school year. You might want to contact them for insight.
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ohrhalimud




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 9:42 pm
Ohr HaLimud teaches children with dyslexia. That is their program and that is their profile. Baruch Hashem the NY Jewish community has many choices and it makes sense for a dyslexic child to go to a school that specializes in dyslexia. You would not go to a podiatrist to get your gallbladder out. The good thing about Ohr HaLimud is that their goal is to mailstream their students back with the skills to learn in a traditional classroom in 2-3 years. Traditional classroom teachers are not trained to teach dyslexic children. As you said intelligence is not the issue. Dyslexia is just a mechanical glitch!
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married123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 10:08 pm
Catapult in Lakewood has smaller classrooms run by special Ed teachers in mainstream schools. I'm assuming most kids in those classes have an iep and are somewhat LD. Their main focus is academics but I believe they address social areas as well. It's govt funded and I believe well run. Don't know many details but you can ask around. Amazing idea! Good luck! I'd work for you and help you with the planning....
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Queen6




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 10:19 pm
If classes were smaller in size for example 20 per class, they wouldn't need all the therapists and behavior modification and extra reading or specializing in anything....
Kids are falling through the cracks today because there are too many in the class! How can a teacher possibly reach everybody?!
My idea is a school with 20 kids max and therefore a mandatory higher tuition. It's ok to spend so much in tuition since then you don't have to shell out fortunes for therapy.....
It's crazy how these days everyone has an issue.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 12 2015, 11:49 pm
Queen6 wrote:
If classes were smaller in size for example 20 per class, they wouldn't need all the therapists and behavior modification and extra reading or specializing in anything....
Kids are falling through the cracks today because there are too many in the class! How can a teacher possibly reach everybody?!
My idea is a school with 20 kids max and therefore a mandatory higher tuition. It's ok to spend so much in tuition since then you don't have to shell out fortunes for therapy.....
It's crazy how these days everyone has an issue.

Nice theory, but unfortunately not true.
Yes true that smaller class size has certain benefits.
Not true that it eliminates the need for different teaching styles and structured specialized approaches.
I think there are different types of kids:
Those who do fine anywhere (assuming the teachers are qualified and nothing terrible is going on.) I've seen quite a lot of kids thrive (yes, I mean thrive - doing great in all ways) in classes of 25-30 kids.
Those who could use a smaller class because they get easily overlooked or overwhelmed or would just benefit from more individual attention.
Those who have particular developmental or learning difficulties that need a specialized approach irrespective of how many other kids there are in the class. Probably served best by a smaller class but need more than just individual attention.

Trust me, I have seen kids who were moved to schools with smaller classes because someone their parents trusted a lot must have told them it would solve all their problems. It didn't. They had warmth and caring and a very limited social pool but not the tools they needed to overcome their challenges. For some kids being invited to the rebbi's house for Shabbos or for a class barbeque is just what they need, and for others it's a lot of fun but not solving the problem.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:28 pm
Ideas still percolating.

I would love to know if anyone (and Maya I definitely mean you! I will PM you if you don't reply first Smile ) has an example or template they could share of what a proposal to open a school should look like. I mean, I'm assuming you had something written up to clarify what your school is about to show to potential investors/donors/whatever.

My idea has shifted a bit to something that seems a lot more ambitious and definitely would need more ambitious funding, but perhaps might have a better chance of success due to being more revolutionary. I would like to explain more but my computer time should have been up long ago so I'm just reviving the thread with the new question (aim: what should my mission statement look like and include?) and will continue a different time.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 02 2015, 11:31 pm
My congregation started with a committee and feasibility studies and financial projections. We surveyed members numerous times before the committee put a proposal together. It took about 3 years for us to advance the proposal.(This was not specific to SN children, but it will give you an idea of a timeline.)
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