Going into evangelical church

rachel91

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 6:13 am

First of all, there are crosses big time! I went to evangelical church a few times when I was younger, most of the people where I grew up in Germany are evangelical, and I wasn't frum yet.
Second of all, why would we want to go there? It's mostly about the architecture, if you mean that, and those are catholic anyways.
And third, I do think it's the fact that it's a christian place and avoda zara is more important than how many crosses and paintings are hanging on the walls.

sequoia

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:20 am

rachel91 wrote:

The church I went to as a kid had nothing like crosses or other paraphernalia. It was literally just a room with chairs and a projector. It could have been any room.

Why? I don't know, to make my mother happy. She says no one in her church even believes she has a daughter.

youngishbear

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:22 am

sequoia wrote:

Are there events like picnics or get-togethers in people's homes you can attend to prove your existence?

m in Israel

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 12:15 pm

sequoia wrote:

If the room is used for other things AND is not being used for religious services at the time that you go, there may be some halachic wiggle room.

When I worked for the DOE there was a time period where I was teaching in a Catholic school that was located in a church building. I spoke to my posek about the situation, and I was allowed to go into the building/classrooms/office, etc., but I avoided the actual room where they held services. Similarly, going to a "12-step" program that is held in a church building is allowed by many under certain circumstances.

If this is causing issues between you and your mother, I would strongly recommend you speak to someone IRL who is familiar with the details of the halacha who may be able to help you figure out a way to accommodate your mother within the halachic parameters.

Although I do think youngishbear's idea is a good one.

Petra

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 2:11 pm

My MIL is Xtian and people believe her when she says she has children...and they are Jewish.

On another note, Xtians are not polytheistic. Even if they believe in the "trinity". The trinity makes no earthly sense to me which is one of the big beefs I had when I was Catholic and nobody has ever been successful in explaining the trinity to me. Eventually, I converted!

I was raised Catholic by my mother even though my father was a Pentecostal Xtian who thought all Catholics were heathens and the Catholic religion a farce. I have no idea how the two got together but they did and somehow us children went to Catholic school during our formative years. However the omniscient one always comes down to G-d.

However, I must point out that Judaism has different understandings of G-d as well; different names used depending on context and meaning of text. An outsider would certainly be confused by this, I'm sure.

We have much symbolism in articles that we use in Judaism. Lots of chumras and segulahs don't hold water to me.

Seeing a crucifix does nothing to me other than I think to myself, "Gross! How did this ever come to be a custom?"

boymom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 9:56 pm

I don't think it has anything to do with what the room looks like and whats in the room.
very simply put - we learned in school that one is permitted to go into a mosque and daven there (if they didn't kill you yet. lol.) because they believe in the same g-d as we do.
on the other hand, one is forbidden to enter a church ( but seems like there is room for leeway based on what other posters described) because they believe in a different g-d than we do. though I honestly don't know which g-d they believe in.

sequoia

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:05 pm

Boymom, I grew up christian (evangelical). I went to church, christian school, Bible study, prayer meeting.

I can assure you they believe in the same God we do. They have the same text we do. Just, with an unauthorized sequel. And of course they misinterpret the TaNaCH terribly. But the foundational text and the foundational *narrative* of our religions is the same.

None of which really matters in this case.

boymom

Mon, Jul 13 2015, 10:13 pm

sequoia wrote:

possible. I don't know. I was never anything but jewish and don't know any Christians personally. I guess my teacher didn't really know how to explain it so that's what she said. can you figure out what she really meant?

m in Israel

Tue, Jul 14 2015, 1:58 am

boymom wrote:

She probably meant the shailah I referenced earlier -- you can open the link I posted for a bit more detail. It is a question of "avodah zorah bishituf", which means believing in Hashem PLUS something else. It is connected to the idea of the "echad"ness of Hashem. It does NOT mean that Christians believe in a DIFFERENT G-d, but rather if the additional aspects of their beliefs (especially the components involving the division of Hashem into parts) are enough to classify it as Avodah Zorah for halachic purposes.

None of which really helps sequoia, who presumably is not looking to get into a halachic debate with her mother about the definition of Avodah Zorah. . .