Couple in 60's on verge of divorce, wife is very sick and

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amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:10 pm

Couple in 60's on verge of divorce, wife became very sick and husband is in control and making medical decisions. He wants his wife to stay in a nursing home, where she was put by him after a hospital stay, and never return home, even though she can clearly come home. She is not attahced to machinery. She is deteriorating by the day.

Their son is upset at husband.
Her sister is upset at husband.
All her neighbors are upset at husband.
All Rabbonim involved are upset at husband.

Husband says he suffered for X amount of years, now let her suffer and die.

What is there to do?

alittlebirdie

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:12 pm

That sounds terrible. Maybe call a rabbi.

Sadie

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:13 pm

Report him for elder abuse.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:16 pm

Sadie wrote:

Report him for elder abuse.

To whom and how?

Rutabaga

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:23 pm

Call a lawyer. Maybe the court can appoint a guardian to look out for her best interests.

Sadie

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:23 pm

Check here: http://www.ncea.aoa.gov

There must also be social workers at the nursing home, maybe the children could ask them for advice about how to get medical power of attorney transferred to them, or ask for a referral to an attorney.

CatLady

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:33 pm

I am assuming that the woman would not need 24/7 hands-on nursing care and that she is medically ready for discharge. If so, she's occupying a bed that someone else genuinely needs while this drama plays out. The most menchlach thing for the husband to do would be to go ahead with the divorce and turn over guardianship of his ex to his son and family.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:38 pm

CatLady wrote:

Not happening, theres too much money in her name involved and bad blood between them. Husband is getting even.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:40 pm

Sadie wrote:

If the husband doesn't want to give up the POA he doesn't have to without a court fight. If he is divorcing her (civilly) her atny may be able to help in this matter.

amother

Blush

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:43 pm

amother wrote:

There are huge chunks of this story missing.

Was this woman declared incompetent by a court, and guardianship given to her husband? Is she unconscious or otherwise unable to make decisions on her own? What I'm trying to get at is why in the Sam Hill doesn't she just check herself out?

And if nursing home care is not medically required, who is paying for it? I don't know what country you're in, but I'm not aware of any countries where nursing home care is freely and readily available without medical indication.

Assuming that she cannot make her own decisions, because she is incapable or because she has been declared incompetent, her son needs to get us off his posterior and petition for guardianship. Since you have heard her husband say that he wants to make her suffer and die -- clearly not the intended role of a guardian -- you should be prepared to testify.

ETA -- google tells me that "Some average costs for long-term care in the United States (in 2010) were: $205 per day or $6,235 per month for a semi-private room in a nursing home. $229 per day or $6,965 per month for a private room in a nursing home. $3,293 per month for care in an assisted living facility (for a one-bedroom unit)." So, assuming you're correct that the stay is not medically indicated, and also assuming that this is in the US, why on earth would anyone who is after his spouse (ex-spouse) money put her in a nursing home, to the tune of more than $6000 a month, AND where there are people whose job it is to keep her alive?

Frumdoc

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:46 pm

Does she have the mental capacity to understand and express where she wants to live?

If so, then he has no say in how or where she choses to live and she/ her advocates (eg family and friends, or a legal advocate) can enable her to do what she wants with the resources she has.

If he is abusing her in some way (legal definitions of abuse to a vulnerable adult include physical, financial and social and vary between countries) then she or her advocates can address this with social services or the law.

In my country if this was the case, firstly her capacity to make welfare decisions would be formally tested and recorded, then a care plan based on her wishes would be put together, and then if the husband blocked this, he would be over ruled and if necessary, prevented from contact or any control. But the financial side is different here and the laws regarding human rights over your own decision making, as well as safeguarding vulnerable adults are very powerful and used extensively.

saralem

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 4:52 pm

If she does not lack "capacity" to make her own decisions, then no one can prevent her from doing so. Her husband, OTOH, can prevent her from returning home, if she requires his care. If she has the funds to pay for home health aides and husband doesn't need to assist her in any way, but he still insists that she can not come home, then she need an attorney to challenge him. If they both own the home, then she has the right to return there. But--why would she want to live under the same roof as him, given the bad blood?? Maybe she would consider assisted living, until she can sort out the legal details.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 5:01 pm

saralem wrote:

As long as hes in charge of her, she is drugged and spacey. In her current frame of mind, she cant make any decisions. The problem is, I think even those who care about her like her sister and son, dont want to undertake overseeing her medical care at home. They'll only do so much.

alittlebirdie

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 5:03 pm

That is very sad

PAMOM

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 5:12 pm

If she's well enough to come home, she may not need her sister or son. There are agencies that oversee care for people who don't have anyone. She can refuse to take the medicine. She can ask for a lawyer. Her son or sister may need to call a lawyer for her, but that doesn't commit them to care for her, esp if she has money to pay aides.

Sadie

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 5:15 pm

If the husband's stated intention is to make his wife suffer, then the son should petition for guardianship even if he doesn't intend to care for her at home. Even if she stays in a nursing home her care should be decided by someone with good intentions.

Frumdoc

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 5:59 pm

amother wrote:

If her close family are accusing him of drugging her, they should report it to the police, her doctors and social care, and petition for custody and guardianship. If they believe he is doing this and thst he intendsto effectively murder her but are not intervening, they ere equally guilty.

There are huge holes here.
What is the OP's role in this saga?
Who claims that he is drugging her and are the doctors complicit?

The financial interest of many parties is sadly a major factor in all sorts of elder abuse, but competing beliefs about how ill/demented/ cognitively aware someone is and what and how their best interests will be served are also major factors in determining care and family broigus.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 6:08 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

OP here. Im a family friend for over 30 years. DH and I know both. Husband is not actually administering drugs, but allowing doctors to give her what they please to make care of her easier, which happens very easily when someone is in a hospital and no one is watching the patient day to day and inquiring day to day and questioning day to day. Her DH has no interest in giving her a minute of any day any time ever, and son is far away and sister can only do so much. I just got filled in and the sitch verified by a Rebbitzen who is asking anyone who can help, to help.

PAMOM

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 6:18 pm

Is she in a hospital or nursing home? It's not likely that she's in a hospital and it matters. The son or sister needs to hire a lawyer. One of them (or the rav) needs to come to appointment where the lawyer meets with her. She needs to sign a waiver saying he doctor can release medical records to the lawyer.

Fox

Mon, Jul 20 2015, 6:19 pm

amother wrote:

and son is far away

It sounds to me like "son" needs to high-tail it home, pronto! Whatever legal channels need to be pursued to change her medical power of attorney and/or get assistance from social workers, etc., it's not likely to happen unless her son steps up to the plate.

If the woman is competent to change her will, doing so might remove some of the financial incentive to keep her incapacitated.

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