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"Women must never speak to rabbis" - ?
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 7:24 am
Iymnok wrote:
She judged outside under a date tree.


Exactly. And I can't imagine there were men who refused to speak to her.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 7:26 am
I wouldn't trust a rabbi with such issues. Though I would respect he doesn't do what he feels is too much.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 8:02 am
This is his rebbe who got caught with this. He has the gadlus to say, "Yes, he did it, " instead of insisting on innocence because of his Rebbe's stature.

So instead he goes the other way. We do know that the higher someone's level of Torah and tzidkus, the higher the Yetzer Hara. We see dor hamidbar do aveiros we can't understand considering all the missing around them, including gilui arayos. So this rav sticks to his Rebbe's gadlus, like most talmidim would, but instead of, "He couldn't have done it, " he says , "If he could fall from this, there is a huge Yetzer hara, and I could fall from this. We all could."

Not saying I agree. But it does make sense to me. It is possible that this is hard for rabbanim who see many women but they are misgaber for the sake of the tzibbur. Devorah's method is a good lesson. Complete transparency.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 8:20 am
Squishy wrote:
Who is the third person? I would be very uncomfortable discussing anything personal in the presence of a third person plus wouldn't this destroy any privilege?


My father is a Rabbi, who speaks to women, or women speak to him. If he is speaking to a woman alone, either my mother is in another room downstairs (he usually sees people at his house), or the front door is wide open, and being the kind of house it is, with the shul/office next door, there are always people coming in or out, the married kids have keys, etc. Even if my mother is upstairs resting, instead of doing stuff downstairs, he will leave the door open. And if I come in, and my mother is out, so the door is already open, he still leaves it open even though I am there as well, and technically it's not yichud because my mother is in town and loads of people have the key... The halachos of yichud are there for a reason.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 8:35 am
I have never gone to a rabbi for counseling. That's what a therapist is for.

If I have a halachic question I email my rabbi or sometimes I'll call if it's more complicated.

When I say "Good Shabbos" to him after shul, he responds to me directly, face to face. When kids say "Good Shabbos," he bends down to their level to respond and gives out candy.

When DH and I have needed to consult with our rav together, he actually came to our home (twice!) and sat at the table with us. This was to go over particular issues that had lots of halachic ramifications, specifically IF treatments and then going to the hospital on Pesach.

Can you tell I love my rabbi? Platonically, of course!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 9:12 am
I find this disconcerting. But Animeme did remind us of the context - he had to take a stand in light of the scandal he would be closely associated with. If he wants to say that about Breslovers, fine. If he wants to point out that not only must people use seichel. but sadly, there must be extra safeguards (e.g. principals having windows in their doors) also fine.

But sometimes a woman must speak directly: this option can't be cut off.
I remember a story of Rav Chaim Ozer meeting a kallah, and when it was clear that no one taught her the halachos, he did. These were extreme circumstances, so much disruption in the social and family structure in the late 1930s, but still.

Anyway, my guess is not that Rabbi Arush will backtrack, but he will clarify. And as Animeme said, give him points for not sweeping this under the rug.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 9:20 am
In a July 18 post on the Zomet website, R' Yisrael Rosen also strongly implied that women should not "seek advice in private meetings with rabbis" and criticized the women in the Sheinberg incidents.

http://www.zomet.org.il/eng/?C.....=8767
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 10:32 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
He slammed the rabbis who receive women ...

But I'll bet if I say anything that is not totally reverential I will have the Nine Days thrown at me.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 10:36 am
animeme wrote:
This is his rebbe who got caught with this. He has the gadlus to say, "Yes, he did it, " instead of insisting on innocence because of his Rebbe's stature.

I read the article twice and did not see where he said that. It's the reporter who mentions his teacher, and the quote that follows is neither identical to "he did it" nor necessarily about that or any other rabbi.
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amother
Black


 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 10:57 am
Well it does make sense. As open minded as I am. women do need to be protected and rabbis are men just as any other men. I'm not into 'yezer hara' talk and Im not one to judge who has it ' bigger' but maybe it isn't a bad idea for rabbis to not work ALoNE with women. As others have mentioned - a third person (DH , or rabbis wife) is a perfect solution, especially when it comes to Halacha questions. And maybe there should be more women rebetzinzs So that when a woman needs eiza she can ask a rebetzinz alone.
A bit like it works with rav kanievsky- men go to him, women go to her. And when there are questions soecifically to the other one- there is a third person.
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 10:59 am
In short, men are animals therefore not capable of controlling their zexual urges. The end.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 11:08 am
imasoftov wrote:
I read the article twice and did not see where he said that. It's the reporter who mentions his teacher, and the quote that follows is neither identical to "he did it" nor necessarily about that or any other rabbi.


I didn't read all the other sources but it seems likely enough if you connect the dots that it was a response. Not one the tzibbur will be mekabel readily, but a response, at least.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 11:51 am
MrsDash wrote:
In short, men are animals therefore not capable of controlling their zexual urges. The end.


I wonder who if anyone, finds comfort in that thought. IMHO these rabbis are doing everyone a disservice by clinging to this stereotype.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 11:54 am
I'm not sure I understand why rabbis are different from any other men in this regard.

If it's just a yichud issue, then there's no reason to refer to this extra-super-strong yetzer hara.

And if rabbis have an extra-super-strong yetzer hara, I would be curious what it is about their training or professional experience that gives them these inclinations.

Or do men with a extra-super-strong yetzer hara tend to gravitate toward smicha?
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amother
Black


 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 11:58 am
DrMom wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why rabbis are different from any other men in this regard.

If it's just a yichud issue, then there's no reason to refer to this extra-super-strong yetzer hara.

And if rabbis have an extra-super-strong yetzer hara, I would be curious what it is about their training or professional experience that gives them these inclinations.

Or do men with a extra-super-strong yetzer hara tend to gravitate toward smicha?


It's my understanding that the rabbi was referring to the source in Gemara that says that the 'bigger' the oerson is the bigger his yezer hara is
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 12:10 pm
well, then ....don't create a culture when you have to ask the rabbi for just about everything! and don't create a culture where you need a segula for everything! That should cut down on half of the bracha-giving and eitza-giving problems.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 12:21 pm
amother wrote:
It's my understanding that the rabbi was referring to the source in Gemara that says that the 'bigger' the oerson is the bigger his yezer hara is


do they also steal a lot? lie a lot? kill?? chas veshalom.
I don't buy all gedolim have a bigger yetzer for everything bad at once.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 12:22 pm
Ruchel wrote:
do they also steal a lot? lie a lot? kill?? chas veshalom.
I don't buy all gedolim have a bigger yetzer for everything bad at once.

And I don't buy that all "rabbis" are people who are "bigger" than me...
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 12:30 pm
I think his reasoning comes from a place of trying to be dan lekaf zechus. it seems preferable to blame the evil yetzer hara that overcomes a man when he is in the presence of a woman than to blame the man for sinning. so the next step in that reasoning is that it is impossible to see a women without sinning.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Fri, Jul 24 2015, 1:58 pm
octopus wrote:
well, then ....don't create a culture when you have to ask the rabbi for just about everything! and don't create a culture where you need a segula for everything! That should cut down on half of the bracha-giving and eitza-giving problems.


This culture was created whe we became a nation. Moshe rabbenu couldn't cope with allthe questions and advice people wanted fromhim that he needed his FIL yisro idea of taking on "hellpers".
This "culture" is part of who we are. It is called. Emunas chachomim which is part and parcel of Torah and mesorah. There is a reason there are rabbonim. And it's not only for them to aswer our nidda, kashrus and fastin sheilos.
My father is a Rov (chassidish Satmar) and he talks to women in things of halacha as well as advice and knows when things needa professionals ooutlook and will refer to one. But I know whha it means a Rov dedication and yiras shamayim and above all SIYATA DISHMAYA
THIS is our culture
People have no clue how vital it is to stick to this "culture" in order to preserve true Torahdig life leshem shamayim
I apologie if I sound sarcastic
I just get upset how this sentiment is mentioned here so often - "we don't need Rabbis to advise us in all matters in life"
I am very open minded and way more modern than my family and very learned for awoman in my circles and my husband is a big talmid chochom. And yet I know that none if compares to the VAST amount of chochma in halacha, hashkofa and common sense from decades of a rav pouring over the holiest and deepest books this world ever had.
I am proud of this culture. It is called yiddishkeit

Wow I have never been this sharp.
Anonymous because of personal info.

ETA: it reminds me of a story. in the times of the austro-hungarian empire the emperor franz joseph appointed a jewish community council as an umbrella over all jewish communities, they were orthodox. the reform "neolog" community wanted to petition for a seperate council in order to go according to their "culture". so they were invited for an audience by the empreror where they said "orthodox life is so stifling. they have a law for every little movement." when the emperor asked for an example they replied "they even say a blessing after going to the toilet!" thinking it will appal the emperor and convince him. instead he said: "a religion that looks out for every movement of a person and shows G-d appreciation for even going to the toilet. THIS is a religion." and he denied their petition.

THIS my ladies is our culture!

If I get attacked and dont reply, it is only because it is almost Shabbos here.
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