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Hukabee's statement on Iran Deal
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 12:38 am
http://us.cnn.com/2015/07/26/p......html


I am not a supporter of the Iran Deal, Obama or Huckabee.

While I do not think the Iran deal is good for Israel, something about this article pushed my buttons. Maybe I feel Huckabee is using the Holocaust imagery to further his political campaign. Yes, I know that's what politicians do, but I still don't like it.

I think I also dislike the patronizing idea that whatever the US does will determine the fate of Israel and the Jews. B"H the State of Israel is dependent more on Hashem and Hashem's shlichim, the IDF, than on anything else.

Also it would be more productive to oppose the agreement on why it would be bad for the USA.

Not that it will make any real difference. As I understand it, even if Congress does not pass it, the President will override their veto and Congress will not have the votes to override the President's veto.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 5:35 am
I liked Huckabee's interview at the Israel Day Parade. He said that the Palestinians should get a state but not in Israel! I thought that was so logical. Why would they want this tiny piece of land? The middle East is tremendous and all Arab. So make them a state in an empty corner of Saudi Arabia (or some other large Arab country). Makes sense but the Arabs will never agree cause they're not peaceful countries like us and America and Europe...

I'm not so worried about being nuked in 10 years but I am worried about all the money that Iran is getting now to use for terrorism. I'm worried that the world still seems to think that we were wrong in the war last summer.

I don't think there's anything wrong with him bringing up the Shoah. We're still crying over it so why not keep "milking" the world for what they did to us? He's really sticking his neck out in his support for Israel. He just lost the vote of all the antisemites (and there are more of them that us). I'm glad there is someone willing to not be so PC and say the truth. He deserves the Jewish vote for saying outrageous things. Otherwise the liberal world will just sit by while we're massacred.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 6:23 am
I agree with Sanguine.

The Shoah is a very reasonable analogy to a situation in which people who avow to kill Jews are given nuclear weapons.

If people want to be offended, let them be offended by the deal itself.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 6:52 am
DrMom wrote:

If people want to be offended, let them be offended by the deal itself.

Very well put!
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 7:28 am
The Jewish voter is stiff necked. Here you have a man who sticks his neck out for Israel and he is villified by the Jewish Democrats. Huckabee is saying the same thing many Rabbonim are saying and what intelligence is saying, namely that if this deal is finalized, that there is no turning back and that it may well result in a nuclear holocaust. Israel is simply very close to the action. American lives can and will be lost too in America if we go down the route of placiating our enemies.

Meanwhile Democrats are solely responsible for the passage or failure of the Iran Deal and they won't lose a Jewish vote either way or at least they won't lose much significant in the long run.

Grace, it is nice to wax poetically about Hashem's protection, but Hashem grants free choice and if Iran has a bomb and chooses to use it in the Middle East, there are consequences period, just like there were consequences with Neville Chamberlin failed to recognize pure evil.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 7:46 am
I hate the usage of Holocaust analogies to make a political point, but it's entirely appropriate in this case. Frankly, this deal brings us scarily close to ch'v letting it happen again, so no, not offensive at all to make the comparison. It's the truth. I'm all for praying, that doesn't preclude us from doing concrete activities like imploring Congress to scuttle this travesty.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 8:26 am
The main thing is to remind people that the unimaginable can happen. There is true evil in the world. Hitler and his soldiers Y"sh had no problem killing 6,000,000 Jews to try to create his pure race. Someone should also be reminding America how on 9/11 fundamental Islamists had no problem flying 2 planes into the twin towers and killing 3,000 innocent people. This is true evil. Iran would have absolutely no problems with using Nuclear bombs once they have it.

Wake up and smell the coffee!! There is such a thing as true evil in the world. We saw it in Germany. We saw it on 9/11 and there have been many other times too (just not as large, though they tried). Sometimes it feels like America would be happier if Israel just disappeared. When will they admit that Iran is going after them next?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 11:05 am
This is just dog whistle pot stirring on Huckabee's part. He really has little relevance when it comes to mainstream politics. Running for office is a job for Huckabee and Santorum now that they can draw 'salaries' from their contribution coffers. When the elections are over Huckabee will be back to working for faux news and Santorum will hit the xtian fundamentalist speaking tour.
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 1:01 pm
I have no problems with the words he chose.
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Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 27 2015, 4:31 pm
Sanguine wrote:
The main thing is to remind people that the unimaginable can happen. There is true evil in the world. Hitler and his soldiers Y"sh had no problem killing 6,000,000 Jews to try to create his pure race. Someone should also be reminding America how on 9/11 fundamental Islamists had no problem flying 2 planes into the twin towers and killing 3,000 innocent people. This is true evil. Iran would have absolutely no problems with using Nuclear bombs once they have it.

Wake up and smell the coffee!! There is such a thing as true evil in the world. We saw it in Germany. We saw it on 9/11 and there have been many other times too (just not as large, though they tried). Sometimes it feels like America would be happier if Israel just disappeared. When will they admit that Iran is going after them next?


I fully agree that there are evil regimes in the world we live. However, Hitler and 9-11 terrorists did not hesitate in carrying out their evil plans because there was no retaliatory nuclear weapons and/or they're too fanatic to be scared of retaliatory attack. That is one major difference with current Iran, which, as much as its leader's rhetoric sounds crazy, has been acting pretty rationally when it comes to diplomacy. (They've come a long way since the days of American hostages, they definitely behave far more rationally than North Korea or IS.) As some columnist said some time ago, nuclear weapon is so 20th century. We have nearly 50years of record, thanks to Cold War, which demonstrate nuclear weapon is a rather impractical weapon to deploy in real use (thank goodness for that) because you've gotta think of consequence.

BTW, I really don't like when someone uses the word 'milking' in the same sentence as Holocaust.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 5:12 am
Mrs Bissli wrote:
BTW, I really don't like when someone uses the word 'milking' in the same sentence as Holocaust.
You're right "milking" isn't what we're doing. We're not saying, Support us cause you should feel guilty and owe it to us ("Enough! - We said we're sorry. That was 70 years ago - Get on with you lives - Forgive and Forget") We are rubbing their faces in it and saying remember the horrors of the Holocaust. There are no longer world leaders around who were alive during WWII. The Holocaust is becoming just another chapter in world history. Only us Jews still feel it so personally. We're not talking about the Spanish Inquisition in the 15th century but could be for how the world remembers the 1930-40's. We must keep reminding The Western world how a modern, prosperous, educated country in the 20th century tried to annihilate the entire Jewish people just because of differences in Religion. What's the difference now with Islamic Jihad? Hitler Y"Sh was smart. He didn't go to the corner bar and beat up a few Jews. He raised himself to a position where he could do major damage.

America is so naive if they think they can shake hands with Iran and live in Peace. Israel does it again and again too in Oslo and Gaza. We (not me) tried and suffered for it. But America is so much smarter. They're putting Israel on the front line first. I am positive that America has safety nets in place if Iran breaks the disagreements. But their safety nets will only be operated after Iran takes the first steps - Nukes Israel!! I don't remember Israel agreeing to be the canary in the coal mine for America. We know it's too dangerous to take the risk on this one. It's a guaranteed loser.

So I guess I really don't want to "milk" America using the Holocaust. But I do want to use the memory of the atrocities by a modern, prosperous, educated country in the 20th century to very very strongly impress America that the world doesn't all run the way America thinks it should.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 5:46 am
I don't like the Holocaust analogy. Aside from the danger however slight, that it is being invoked for some sort of personal political capital, I don't think the analogy is apt, despite some obvious parallels, because the Holocaust implies Jewish helplesness and defenselessness.
That, B"H, is hardly the case. Our hands might be tied now to some extent for various political reasons, but if push comes to shove we have the wherewithall to protect ourselves.
The stereotype of Jewish helplesness is outdated and I don't know why it needs to be perpetuated.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 6:21 am
etky wrote:
I don't like the Holocaust analogy. Aside from the danger however slight, that it is being invoked for some sort of personal political capital, I don't think the analogy is apt, despite some obvious parallels, because the Holocaust implies Jewish helplesness and defenselessness.
That, B"H, is hardly the case. Our hands might be tied now to some extent for various political reasons, but if push comes to shove we have the wherewithall to protect ourselves.
The stereotype of Jewish helplesness is outdated and I don't know why it needs to be perpetuated.
I think I'm starting to feel helpless. I have a lot of faith in Tzahal but we can't take on the world. Suddenly Iran is the "good guys" and we're the "bad guys". So all the Western countries that were our allies are suddenly protecting Iran against us?? Has the world gone crazy? We're the "good guys"!!! Wake me up from this nightmare. If America is helping our enemy get a nuclear bomb who do they think it is addressed to? And where do they think all those billions of dollars will go? Iranian economy? Diapers for poor children? How about terrorism?

I feel very helpless and defenseless cause our mortal enemies have pulled the wool over our allies eyes.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 6:49 am
etky wrote:
I don't like the Holocaust analogy. Aside from the danger however slight, that it is being invoked for some sort of personal political capital, I don't think the analogy is apt, despite some obvious parallels, because the Holocaust implies Jewish helplesness and defenselessness.
That, B"H, is hardly the case. Our hands might be tied now to some extent for various political reasons, but if push comes to shove we have the wherewithall to protect ourselves.
The stereotype of Jewish helplesness is outdated and I don't know why it needs to be perpetuated.



I take great offense at the idea that the " holocaust implies Jewish helplessness and defenselessness". It really dishonors the memory of the kedoshim. My grandfather a"h, a survivor who rarely talked of his experiences, would get very, very, angry when he heard anyone express this sentiment. And he was a very even tempered person. He would say that this is the attitude of the naive and he felt it even smacked of a bit of anti-semitism. The attitude that would let it happen again. The attitude of the secular Zionist who scorned the survivors and looked at them like cowards. I personally know many survivors ( because I spent my summers in a bungalow colony for the elderly and most were survivors.)and I know most feel similarly. Please don't take this as an attack because I know you were probably unaware how offensive this may be.

As for huckabees comment, I think it is a perfectly appropriate stament. The holocaust isn't a sacred word that can never be uttered unless the ADL allows it. It should be used now to demonstrate what appeasement and allowing military and weapon build up can lead to. Confronting Hitler over the Sudetenland probably would have saved tens of millions of lives. Instead he was allowed to strengthen his army. If we don't learn from history, it will repeat itself.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 6:53 am
Mrs Bissli wrote:
I fully agree that there are evil regimes in the world we live. However, Hitler and 9-11 terrorists did not hesitate in carrying out their evil plans because there was no retaliatory nuclear weapons and/or they're too fanatic to be scared of retaliatory attack. That is one major difference with current Iran, which, as much as its leader's rhetoric sounds crazy, has been acting pretty rationally when it comes to diplomacy. (They've come a long way since the days of American hostages, they definitely behave far more rationally than North Korea or IS.) As some columnist said some time ago, nuclear weapon is so 20th century. We have nearly 50years of record, thanks to Cold War, which demonstrate nuclear weapon is a rather impractical weapon to deploy in real use (thank goodness for that) because you've gotta think of consequence.

BTW, I really don't like when someone uses the word 'milking' in the same sentence as Holocaust.



Hitler was great at diplomacy too and did not act irrationally. Back then there were many Jews who felt it was 'just' rhetoric too. But WWII taught us that when evil regimes threaten to annihilate you, YOU TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY!
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Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 7:27 am
zohar wrote:
Hitler was great at diplomacy too and did not act irrationally. Back then there were many Jews who felt it was 'just' rhetoric too. But WWII taught us that when evil regimes threaten to annihilate you, YOU TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY!


sorry you missed my comments on nuclear deterrence that obviously didn't apply back in WW2 (though I suspect it would have, as was the case of Cuban crisis, Cold War, so far no full conflict between Koreas post Korean War). I thought we are discussing Iran going nuke.
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zohar




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 7:47 am
Mrs Bissli wrote:
sorry you missed my comments on nuclear deterrence that obviously didn't apply back in WW2 (though I suspect it would have, as was the case of Cuban crisis, Cold War, so far no full conflict between Koreas post Korean War). I thought we are discussing Iran going nuke.



Here is the significant difference between nazi Germany and Iran. Hitler did care about the German nation (or Aryan race). Nukes may have deterred him. We don't know. Iran is being run by radical Muslims who hold a belief similar to the apocalypse. The world will be destroyed before the fifth Imam comes or whatever. Don't be fooled that Rouhani is moderate, he has no real power. It is all the Ayatollah Khomeini.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 7:55 am
zohar wrote:
Here is the significant difference between nazi Germany and Iran. Hitler did care about the German nation (or Aryan race). Nukes may have deterred him. We don't know. Iran is being run by radical Muslims who hold a belief similar to the apocalypse. The world will be destroyed before the fifth Imam comes or whatever. Don't be fooled that Rouhani is moderate, he has no real power. It is all the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Good point - "Bring on the nukes - More martyrs for us" Very Happy
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 9:03 am
Sanguine wrote:
The main thing is to remind people that the unimaginable can happen. There is true evil in the world. Hitler and his soldiers Y"sh had no problem killing 6,000,000 Jews to try to create his pure race.


He killed millions more that weren't "pure", too, including the Roma, the physically and mentally disabled, specific xtian groups, etc. Let's not forget how far this evil can go, and how many are affected once it takes root.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 28 2015, 9:35 am
bluebird wrote:
He killed millions more that weren't "pure", too, including the Roma, the physically and mentally disabled, specific xtian groups, etc. Let's not forget how far this evil can go, and how many are affected once it takes root.
Correct, and now a generation later, people in America (or anywhere) that weren't personally affected, really don't believe that this kind of evil can exist now. This could never affect their personal paradise. To them it's like you telling me about people starving in clay huts in some African village. I can sympathize. Send a donation if I'm that type. But I really can't relate to their situation. I'm not about to change my lifestyle in order to help them. Their tragic lives are just a newspaper article to me. That's how the Holocaust is to those unaffected Americans. It's a story about foreigners who lived before there were computers and cell phones. That kind of evil doesn't exist in the 21st century- Right?
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