Frum people renting to low class families

shoshanim999

Sat, Aug 01 2015, 11:13 pm

I just spent shabbos at a friend I've known for many years. Her block is around half frum. Right across the street there is a big 3 family house owned by a frum person. This person rents all 3 floors out to low class families. My question is as follows: is it wrong for a frum person who owns a house on a half frum block to rent apartments to people who will sit outside drinking beer, Have music blasting from their car all summer, kids are riding their bikes up and down the block till midnight with a marijuana smell in the air. Is it fair to bring the block down like this? Of course the owner of the house lives with his family on tje nice neighborhood 2 miles away.

sky

Sat, Aug 01 2015, 11:48 pm

Living conditions are often unsafe and illegal. The house next door to me was bought by a frum person immediately after I purchased mine. The block is almost entirely Jewish. There were at least 4 large families living in this 2 bedroom small home. It was really scary walking by the house between the whistling and young loud crowds and music. After they moved out and someone looked at the house to purchase it - there was a toilet in the basement with a curtain strung around it. And beds piled against every wall of the unfinished basement.

Across the street from me is a home that is illegal to be rented because of a dispute with the bank for years. The house is always rented. Recently the electricity to the home was turned off and cannot be turned back on. My heart really aches for the children living in that home now. There is no fridge, a\c (it is really hot) (sometimes a generator runs at night). They will be evicted soon like all before them as soon as the bank pays a visit.

Many houses in our community are rented to unsavory characters. But isn't a matter of renting the home to a single family. The homes are rented to multiple families, that live in really lousy conditions. I feel bad for them, and I feel bad for the neighbors.

ROFL

Sat, Aug 01 2015, 11:55 pm

A friend of mine has a house she rents davka to people who are according to you " low class" . They actually pay the rent she asks for and don't try to get her to lower the price she is asking for because they have tuition to pay ( she also has tuition)
They pay the rent exactly on the first of the month and don't have excuses why they can't pay that month.
Maybe if our "high class community " would pay like all others the landlords would think differently.

shoshanim999

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 12:42 am

Thank u to the above poster. I purposely didn't mention anything about race in my original post. I'm saying that these people behave in a low class manner. I might be wrong but I think if I met the family for 5 minutes I could've predicted that this family would be loud and obnoxious and bring down the quality of life on the block. However, they are section 8 and the landlord doesn't live in the neighborhood so he doesn't really care that other frum people have to deal with these people and their big dogs. He's getting his money.

DrMom

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 12:59 am

I don't think it's nice to rent your home to people whom you know will disturb the neighborhood with noise, etc.

OTOH, if the owner doesn't live in that neighborhood, he has no contact with the rest of the residents there, so there is no social pressure exerted on him personally to rent to quieter renters. Assuming the renters don't violate any laws (laws like no noise after 11pm, etc.). I don't see why riding bicycles down the block would disturb anyone. (?)

I don't think anyone is under any obligation to rent to any particular "class" of renters (sounds discriminatory). As long as they pay their rent on time and take care of the property and don't cause neighborhood disturbances (as defined by law), I think the renter can rent to anybody he chooses.

As far as I know, at least.

Perhaps someone with a legal background can weigh in on this thread.

MagentaYenta

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 1:09 am

Dr. Mom, in my state it is illegal to discriminate against potential renters who have housing vouchers simply because they are on a HUD program (or any other for that matter). Yea you can turn them down because they have a poor rental history that doesn't meet your written requirements or if they've been evicted etc. There are both bad and good tenants when it comes to HUD clients or private paying renters.

ETA: Maybe some property owners from East Coast metro areas can give some info on how they choose classy renters.

DrMom

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 2:55 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

I don't think the OP was referring to the income level of the renters, rather their behavior.

I didn't get the impression she used the word "class" to indicate income level (I'd call the Kardashians "low class" even though they are wealthy).

LisaS

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 3:14 am

out-of-towner wrote:

OP sweetheart, I hate to break it to you but many many upstanding Frum people are considered lower class too. Otherwise how would so many be Medicaid and WIC eligible?

You would be more effective at making your point if you would drop the condescending tone.

zcc

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 3:29 am

Dont know if this is the type of situation you are referring to but heres a perspective - as I read in the lakewood publication - The Voice of Lakewood. If I remember correctly - Frum man buys a home as an investment in a not jewish area - with plans to rent it out/ sell it eventually to earn a profit on the deal. In the meantime, frum families start buying the houses in this neighborhood, they get upset at him and want him to sell the house/ stop renting to these folks... If he does any of the above at this point he will be losing money.
Is this fair?

Amarante

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 8:29 am

I don't think the question is limited to frum or secular landlords but really is a question of whether a landlord should feel responsible for having "bad" tenants. Why would it make a difference if a landlord owned property in any area and brought in bad tenants that disturbed other people even if they weren't frum.

I don't think the behavior you are talking about is necessarily bad except if the music is very loud and disturbing at all hours. And then the best way to handle is to nicely ask your neighbors to make less noise because your children are sleeping.

Sitting outside drinking beer is not an indication of being low class -at least IMO. It's a pretty normal behavior among lots of people in the summer especially if you don't have A/C. I have memories of my father and uncles sitting outside in the summer with drinks in the country. Different of course because they were in their own backyard but in many urban areas the stoop is the yard for the people and they gather there so I can't condemn the behavior as bad unless they are doing something like harassing people or being very loud at all hours. But just sitting and drinking or riding bikes on hot summer nights isn't necessarily bad. People could complain about loud singing outside their window during Skukkos :-).

I could be projecting but perhaps I am picking up that you think the landlord now has an obligation to rent to frum people and help the block become all frum.

marina

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 9:07 am

I don't understand why you'd rent to someone at all without doing a good background check. Do they have a criminal drug conviction on their record? Were they evicted before? What's their credit score? You can drive by their present location and see what kind of shape they keep their present living quarters. You can take their application and then come by and visit their home and ask them another question and get a peek at how they live.

There's no reason AT ALL to make this about frum or non Jewish or anything to do with race, religion, or any other protected characteristic. You are legally permitted ( this is not legal advice, I'm not licensed in your state) to refuse to rent to someone because of their bad credit score or drug conviction record, etc.

So that's the suggestion I'd make to the frum owner. Plus, there are some places that risk having the government take over property used for illegal activity, such as drug sales, etc. So that's something to think about if you're selling to people who have drug convictions.

nylon

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 1:00 pm

If you want "higher class' tenants you do up the apartment and rent it at a higher price.

The owner cares about getting the rent money every month. Period. Section 8 pays on time. if you're willing to put up with the rules for section 8, it's a solid way to get the rent paid.

why not ask landlords why they become slumlords? Because it's profitable.

PAMOM

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 1:15 pm

If you have evidence that illegal drugs are being used or that a person is making unreasonable noise given the time of night, you can call the police. As has been said, if potential renters pass the credit and criminal checks, the landlord has done due diligence.

leah233

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 2:30 pm

zcc wrote:

Many years ago I was considering doing such such a thing is a NON Jewish part of Lakewood. My husband spoke to two of the most respected Rabbonim in Lakewood who both told him he may not do so if the NON Jewish neighbors will resent him for blockbusting and ruining the neighborhood.(Of course the person who bought the house did so anyway)

sourstix

Sun, Aug 02 2015, 9:13 pm

[quote="zcc"]Dont know if this is the type of situation you are referring to but heres a perspective - as I read in the lakewood publication - The Voice of Lakewood. If I remember correctly - Frum man buys a home as an investment in a not jewish area - with plans to rent it out/ sell it eventually to earn a profit on the deal. In the meantime, frum families start buying the houses in this neighborhood, they get upset at him and want him to sell the house/ stop renting to these folks... If he does any of the above at this point he will be losing money.
Is this fair?[/quote]

you hit it on the nail. some neighborhoods are full of the type frum jews werent dreaming of going to and now they are. so some houses bought by frum jews and rented to non jews and are being loud disrespectful of others. leaving things in middle of the way were pp pass by. dogs unleashed and running after people. there is more. but will leave at that. jewish owner knows now about the trouble I dont know if he will sell it now.