I want to leave | Imamother

amother

Khaki

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 2:39 pm

I want to go back to where we were living. I have tried to integrate and settle in but every time I go back 'home' to visit I go back to Israel and feel down about how I feel every day is a struggle, I can't handle the difference of Israeli culture and more.

I'm feeling a lot of guilt - that my kid's futures/chinuch can be better if I stay, and that I don't want to stay just for their good.

We kind of had a rushed aliyah and it wasn't a decision we made after much thought of if we wanted to leave our schools, friends, lives behind permanently.

We are not struggling financially or suffering, we've actually been enjoying a lot of Israel - but I want the best of everything, and Israel can't give me certain things.

Our Rav said its fine and its up to us.

Advice?

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 2:48 pm

oh wow, I can identify with you. I didnt make aliyah but I moved to a different state. and it wasnt well thought out either. like if I didnt like it what I would do. so I cant complain about the move itself its just a huge adjustment. I dont do well with such changes. I was so exstatic when dh offered it to me. I figured it was great cause housing was so much cheaper and bigger property. but I did get a lot of different challenges I wasnt prepared for . ds was on a lower level in school he needs tutoring which is a great expense. dh business was pretty well were I came from but here he had to start all over again so financially not the best. ds is home from day camp its expensive. so I have to deal with that. I feel lonely at times. I am not driving yet and I dont really wantto I am forcing myself. I guess these are bumps I have to deal with. I made the decision I have to make the best of it. its not easy but I will have to ride it. nothing is perfect anywhere. I remind myself of the positive things I have and that makes me feel better. I still have challenges. but thats life. I hope you can see the reasons you made aliya and make you feel better and more positive. it does get better with time. you get used to things with time. some acclimate faster then others. hatzlacha.

maidale

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 2:54 pm

It's impossible for a stranger to make this important decision for you! All we can do is be a sounding board but ultimately the decision is completely up to you and DH. Aliya is a major step and adjusting might take time. How long has it been since you moved? I'd take pen to paper and make a column of pros and one of cons, look at it honestly and take it from there. In any case I wish you the best of luck in this important decision!

Fave

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 2:54 pm

Do you only feel this longing for home after you come back from visiting your hometown? It reminds me of camp- I was always homesick after visiting day. Seeing my mom invoked feelings of longing for home even though I loved camp.

You admit that your family is enjoying living in Eretz Yisroel. Give yourself some time to get over the homesickness and don't let your emotions rule over logic. After a couple of weeks you can reevaluate your decision.

Hugs.

amother

Purple

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 3:44 pm

How old are your kids and what stream?

DH just met someone who works with kids at risk in EY. He says while the MO or DL may do fine (though I don't know if he knows statistics), chareidi kids have a very hard time adjusting and a very high rate of becoming at risk.

If you say it was a rush, probably you didn't research this question?

sped

Tue, Aug 04 2015, 4:23 pm

amother wrote:

That is interesting. I have been told that the rates are similar - and too high.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 5:04 am

We're in the throes of deciding whether to take the plunge and one thing I keep thinking is that I'll miss something wherever we decide to live. And that there are chinuch issues everywhere. And that ill prob always have periods of loving it and periods of regreting it. And on and on.
Not super helpful but I think it helps to know you're normal. Doesn't nbn have some sort of class/workshop/support group for when the going gets tough?
Try to figure out what exactly is bothering you.
I think your reaulting decision will be very different depending on if it's the homesickness, lack of certain physical things, cultural differences, etc. Also evaluate your day to day structure and community. Maybe you just need a move/diff social circle etc.
Hatzlacha and hugs!!!!
And if you do decide to make yerida, don't beat yourself up. Your happiness is an important component in your kid's upbringing too!

Sanguine

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 5:27 am

Do you want sympathy or advice? If you just want sympathy - Hug

. If you want advice on how to try to make it here you'll have to give more info. How long ago did you come on Aliya? Do you live in an anglo community here? Do you work outside the house? Are you at all friends with Israelis? Do you speak Hebrew? What do you miss so much in America? Family? Friends? Stores? Products? Conveniences?

I remember going to visit in America when my kids were young and them saying "I want to live in America". Then I pointed out that we were on vacation in America. In general kids go to school in America What

. It's not all fun and vacation. It's fun for me to visit America too. But that vacation life wouldn't be my life if I lived there.

So that's why I'm asking how long you're here. Are your yearnings for America reality or vacation mode? Is your life here all it could be (mostly living in the right community for you)

amother

Khaki

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 1:40 pm

OP here.

I'm not going to post specifics for privacy reasons - but:
I have lived here for more than 2 years in an Anglo area. The issue is not where we live, though I don't love the area or the people here.

There is no 'middle ground' here, it is either charedi or not. We are in the middle and there's no place for us.

Kids are at risk in every country and community, IMO the only thing to do is have healthy relationships in the home and do your best, I won't move or stay just based on that.

When we go away for a visit I come back every time even more depressed. There is simply more to offer out of Israel. Financially we can do even better, have a nicer home, cleaning help and child care is less expensive, schools are more our style (middle ground) and I'll actually be able to understand my children's school reports, the culture is familiar and I have less anxiety and more self confidence (which is an issue).

Those things are important to me, and I hope it isn't coming from a selfish place. I did not grow up with money, good schooling, and good community so these things are important to me and I feel we don't have that here in Israel.

At the end of my post I asked for advice, hoping to learn from other's experiences and not feel so guilty. Thank you to all who have written.

5mom

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:02 pm

Immigrating anywhere is hard, and two years is not that long, even though it feels that way. How many times have you been back to your home country? Part of the problem could be that you keep interrupting your adjustment.

Yes, life is materially and maybe socially easier in other countries. But we just read about Moshe Rabbenu begging to enter the land and being refused. You are zoche to live here. Years down the road, do you want to tell your kids that you gave that up for the convenience of bagged salads? I'm exaggerating, of course, but think of the larger picture.

If you are so miserable that you can't function as a parent, or the kids are suffering, or you cannot make a living, that's another story. But from your post, it sounds as if you just don't like making the effort. I can tell you that life in Israel gets easier with time. If you are always looking over your shoulder, though, you will have a harder time facing the real struggles and joys of life here.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best.

Sanguine

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:02 pm

I'm confused cause in your OP you said

Quote:

I'm feeling a lot of guilt - that my kid's futures/chinuch can be better if I stay,

or did I misunderstand.

I'm not at all involved in Yeshivish middle of the road chinuch issue but it does seem to be a big issue for a lot of people, not only you (I love the DL Chinuch here).

Just think of why you ever thought to come on Aliya. Must have been ideological reasons.

Quote:

Financially we can do even better, have a nicer home, cleaning help and child care is less expensive,

aren't usually reasons why people give up their ideals (starving is a good reason), but I really don't know you or what type of person you are.

No one can make you feel guilty (or not guilty), it's really something only you know. How does DH feel about it?

amother

Lime

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:06 pm

These are a few things that help me:

1) The realization that I had lots of struggles and bad days in chu'l also, and that my friends and family, even though materially comfortable struggle too.

2) The fact that I feel much more spiritually connected here. This is because of a few things: My old community is known for it's warm and vibrant Jewish life, yet the cost of living is high because people are also materialistic and focused on materialism just as equally (or more) than they are on their spirituality. Also, I believe Israel is where Jews should live and that there is a higher level of spirituality here, and I feel this in my body, and when I am there I feel a void.

3) The fact that I struggle being an immigrant, means that Gd willing my grandchildren will live in this country and not struggle. I think I would be very sad if my future generations were just plugging along in America trying to pay the tuition bill and fund their next trip to Florida (or Israel!)

If I didn't have the spiritual piece I probably would want to go back too, where I had full time help, and a nice house and bought what I wanted when I wanted it. But I suffer from nagging questions about the big picture, and I personally couldn't answer those questions honestly without Israel in the equation.

Sanguine

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:20 pm

amother wrote:

May I frame this? Why are you amother? I'd hate to be "fighting" you on other issues. For this, I'd give you a "free-pass" on other things Very Happy

ora_43

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

I have lived here for more than 2 years in an Anglo area. The issue is not where we live, though I don't love the area or the people here.

Where you live might not be *the* issue, but I would think it's a big issue. It's hard to be motivated to acclimate if you don't even like the specific place you're trying to acclimate to.

Quote:

There is no 'middle ground' here, it is either charedi or not. We are in the middle and there's no place for us...

Those things are important to me, and I hope it isn't coming from a selfish place. I did not grow up with money, good schooling, and good community so these things are important to me and I feel we don't have that here in Israel.

Like Sanguine, I'm confused by this part. You think chinuch is better here, or worse here? Or something else?

What do you think would be better about your children's futures if you lived in Israel?

DrMom

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 4:04 pm

amother wrote:

This can't be helping matters any.

luppamom

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 4:49 pm

amother wrote:

Well said!!!!

luppamom

Wed, Aug 05 2015, 4:56 pm

About "in the middle", I feel similarly. I don't really "belong" to any "group". Now, I don't have schoolaged kids. I am guessing that we will have to pick a camp when we do. Living here is very important to us and it might mean some sacrifices (in terms of having to pick a camp even if we don't completely agree) for the sake of our child.