Matisyahu - brave defiant proud

sourstix

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 9:28 am

look something is definitely wrong with him. every couple of years he is something else. I did hear him speak somewhere saying he tried orthodox judaism just to see what its like. so he wasnt sincere. thats what he was actually saying. I just think he is a little off. I didnt see the stuff your all talking about. it doesnt matter. I do think he has some issues though. and btw dress is important in yiddishkeit. to put that away is not right. is dress all of it? of course not. but dress is imortant nevertheless. even the non jews understand that. now to mention yushka as a jew, btw he was mentioned as 'yemach shemo' bec he shmad himself. of course he is still a jew but of the stuff hes done he merited those words. I didnt come up with it. the gedolim said it. of course there is pintele yid. I believe that. I am not gonna judge matisyahu. I have no right. hashem is the true judge. but theres is something definitley off with him. jmho

sourstix

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 9:34 am

I just watched it. so sad that he left yiddishkeit. and the singings on shabbos? so sad. thats what lubavitcher rebbe would say. he wouldnt judge him, he would feel sorry that hes not committed to yiddishkeit. he would look for ways to bring him back. none of all this hate and sinas chinom would be going on.. I applaud that type of doing. instead of bashing and judging. who are we to judge anyway. do we know whats going on in peoples hearts and minds? or what their challenges are? no its not our business. please dont judge. I feel sorry for his neshama.

egam

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 9:54 am

rowo wrote:

He identifies as a Jew and the world sees him as a Jew.
He was targeted with hatred because of that and responded with peace.

In front of I dont know how many people who came to taunt him and probably want him (and all of us) dead it shows great courage to get up and perform, and even more to sing about yerushalayim.

I don't really understand the need for such a negative perspective

Absolutely agree. This is not about his life choices or dress, or Shabbos observance. It's about BDS, the cowardice of festival organizers and courage of Matisyahu to get on that stage and publicly declare through the song that it's our land. That Yerushalaim is ours and all of it was given to us by Hashem.
Remember Daniel Pearl? All that mattered that in time of death he proclaimed that he's a Jew. And he died Al kiddush Hashem.

fmt4

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 10:14 am

Do you people realize that most of the people who are watching don't know or care about shabbos or black hats, that is not the point here. This is about anti- semitism that has NOTHING to do with being religious so shabbos and dress are totally irrelevant when it comes to standing up to those people. This is about not being ashamed of being a Jew who supports Israel even in the face of tons of pressure and hostility with Palestinian flags waving in your face. When any of you silly women are brave enough to stand on such a stage and sing a song like that, then you can judge. Until then, do us a favor and SHHHHH.

happybeingamom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 10:34 am

fmt4 wrote:

I care about Shabbos so I won't Shhh, so among this group of women I don't think we can say it is a Kiddush Hashem.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 10:36 am

Personally, I'm going to stop following the thread now. Since neither I nor anyone in my family, such as impressionable kids, really look up to him in away (NOT that we look down on him; frankly, we don't think about him at all) I don't need to know details re chillul Shabbos, etc., and I'll remain with best wishes re his coming to some equilibrium, and that he continue to be strong in whatever areas he can, and that if the opportunity arises, he make a Kiddush Hashem.

fmt4

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 10:42 am

happybeingamom wrote:

I care about Shabbos so I won't Shhh, so among this group of women I don't think we can say it is a Kiddush Hashem.

Well lucky for him, his point is not to impress a bunch of frum women on imamother. If he was trying to make a kiddush hashem for you guys, then it would be a failure. But seeing as he has more important things to do, like showing support for Israel on an international stage and making an actual impression on the real world, I'd say that he was successful.

DrMom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:14 am

sourstix wrote:

With sinat chinam like this, who needs anti-semites?

Laiya

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:22 am

Carmen Luna wrote:

So your definition of Judaism is singing for a crowd a song about Jerusalem? SIGN ME UP! I thought (and when I say "I thought", I dont mean neccesarily myself, more like all the Tzaddikim dating back to Moishe Rabbeinu) Judaism is about being committed to living a life according to the Torah. But apparently all one needs to do to conform to distorted view of being a devout Jew is singing on Shabbos a song about the Holy City, and bam! there's a throne in Heaven waiting with your name inscribed on it.
And way to go, to find this as an opportunity to look down at "black hatted and jacket wearing Jews, who's mere existence seems to annoy you. Hater.
And btw, little anecdote for you, the Chofetz Chaim, you know, one of 'those black hatted wierdos" famously said, there's no such thing as a "frei yid" frei? yes. yid? no! One who doesnt follow in Hashems ways, shouldn't consider himself a jew. Not that it means anything to you...

No, he stood up for Judaism by refusing to malign Israel (ie, Jews) despite intense, public pressure and fear of possible economic loss and ruin.

He created an international Kiddush Hashem, an incredible zchus.

"Living a life according to the Torah", as you say, includes loving our fellow Jews like ourselves (regardless of dress), prohibitions against onaas devarim (hurtful speech would include sarcasm and name-calling), judging others favorably, a lifetime of mussar work to hone and refine one's character, and looking to ensure that our speech and actions create a Kiddush Hashem.

I don't believe the story you quoted of the Chofetz Chaim ever occurred. The stories I've heard of our gedolim demonstrate their love and compassion for all Jews.

happybeingamom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:46 am

fmt4 wrote:

Before you use the term Kiddush Hashem please learn what it means because being Mechalel Shabbos is not under the category of it. Judasim follows halacha not good feelings. Therefore when halacha is violated then it is not a Kiddush Hashem, it is the opposite.

As I mentioned I do not know what time he sang and it could have been after Shabbos and then we are arguing over nothing

fmt4

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 11:53 am

happybeingamom wrote:

I didn't use the term kiddush hashem. I don't know or care if it follows the exact halachos of what a kiddush hashem is according to you. What I do know is that matisyahu risked his reputation and even possibly his life (I would say that in this day and age standing on an open stage in front of a hostile pro- Palestinian crowd singing about Jerusalem can be considered a risk to one's life) in order to publically support the jewish people and the jewish homeland. Kiddush hashem or not, that is something that I, and many other people around the world see as important and admirable.

happybeingamom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 12:03 pm

fmt4 wrote:

You see that more important and admirable then keeping Shabbos in that case we will have to agree to disagree.

DrMom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 12:16 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

You see that more important and admirable then keeping Shabbos in that case we will have to agree to disagree.

Why does it have to be either-or? Can Jews who do not keep Shabbat ever do a kiddush HaShem, in your opinion?

Also FWIW, I understood that his set started late Sat night (although I don't know how late. The concert went on until the wee hours of the morning).

happybeingamom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 12:19 pm

Laiya wrote:

According to this article, the concert was on motzei Shabbos
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015.....deo/#

Wonderful as I mentioned in my posts that I did not know what time he sang and I thank you for clarifying this. If by accident people thought from my posts that I was criticizing Matisyahu then I apologize on this thread.

I was arguing about a concept that Shmiras Shabbos is more important then Jewish pride. Matisyahu did both so Kol Hakavod to him.

happybeingamom

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 12:22 pm

DrMom wrote:

Yes they can but a person does not make a Kiddush Hashem when they are doing an Averah.

If you read my post on this thread I wrote all along that I did not know what time he sang and made no comment about him personally.

zaq

Tue, Aug 25 2015, 3:43 pm

It's been said before but I will reiterate: when a Jew refuses to lick the boots of antiSemites but stands up and says with dignity, "I am a Jew and I WILL NOT BOW DOWN" it doesn't matter if he's frum or frei or unaffiliated, he has made a kiddush haShem by that act alone. What matters is not what Matisyahu wore or sang or looked like, or whether it was before or after shkiyah or tzet, or whether or not he was sincere when he dabbled in Orthodoxy for a while. What matters is that, unlike the organizers of the event, he refused to knuckle under to the BDS slime.

Whether or not he bought his Olam Haba by that act is not for us to speculate. We're not the KBH's accountants.