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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Anyone happier in public school? (you can go amother)
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would you shun a community member for sending to public school?
yes  
 21%  [ 41 ]
no  
 78%  [ 151 ]
Total Votes : 192



amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 5:54 pm
I went to public school and had a great experience all the way through, and I've had horror stories with my own kids so far in frum preschool settings. Aside from the horror stories which I want to think are the exception not the rule, I feel like early childhood education in frum schools is somehow less professional, with less effort put in. I also see that I was just taught more (especially grammar, vocabulary, and general knowledge) than a lot of my ffb friends.

I know it's taboo but I am wondering if I should move to a place with no Jewish school, so that sending to public school wouldn't be an insult to anyone. Are there any OOT communities with no school yet so it wouldn't be an issue?

Alternatively, would homeschooling be an insult to an OOT community that has a school?

You may think I'm crazy but if the horror stories were to continue, trust me, my kids would end up way farther off the derech than if they don't know that many Rabbis/Morahs but they have a good impression of them.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:28 pm
I don't think you're crazy at all. unfortunately, horror stories are not unusual in the yeshiva system. I don't know where you are currently located, but if the local public schools are not an option, homeschooling is definitely a worthy goal.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:30 pm
I attended public schools and got an excellent education. My kids all attended public schools and got excellent educations. None of us are eating cheeseburgers and watching tv on friday nights.
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amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:31 pm
we're moving to the states, somewhere oot or ooot- any ideas? I don't want to say where we are now (LH).
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amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 6:33 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
I attended public schools and got an excellent education. My kids all attended public schools and got excellent educations. None of us are eating cheeseburgers and watching tv on friday nights.


were your kids' schools rated highly? How did you choose them?
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:05 pm
There are a lot of homeschoolers here in Baltimore. Your kids wouldn't be shunned.

As far as comparing frum schools to public schools, remember that frum schools have to cover a double curriculum, so less time is devoted to secular studies. You may want to investigate more "modern" schools which generally put more emphasis on secular subjects.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:27 pm
amother wrote:
were your kids' schools rated highly? How did you choose them?


We left Los Angeles so that we could put the overt materialism behind us and become farmers. We selected the area because of the highly rated schools. Both of us were deeply involved in our children's schools. I'm still sitting on the curriculum committee for the HS even though I'm retired and the kids are grown.
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amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:34 pm
see, this is what I remember from my education- the people teaching us and working at the schools were actually very idealistic about education for everyone.

I don't blame frum schools for being strapped and dependent on tuition and donations. But I may not be able to ever feel okay with how that affects the kids...
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 7:40 pm
amother wrote:
were your kids' schools rated highly? How did you choose them?


Good public schools in the US are very much a product of geography and there is a strong correlation between good public schools and well educated residents. And they tend to cluster in suburbs with relatively high property taxes because good schools cost money - and most suburbs rely almost solely on property taxes to provide funding for their school system. And well educated residents who place a high premium on good education are willing to fund good public schools for their children and also as a way of being a good citizen. And of course, a reputation for good schools creates higher property values.

But even in larger cities, there are excellent schools depending very much on neighborhood - again, not surprisingly, neighborhood schools in middle or upper middle class areas tend to be "better".
A consideration regarding public schools is whether you want to send/live in an area with a high percentage of secular Jews or whether you want to be a complete outlier.

But in general, good public schools exist all over the US - there are some that are considered to be exceptional like those located (for example) in Palo Alto. So like many secular people, move where you want to live/have a job/family and then opt to live in a town/suburb with excellent schools. For example, there are many towns in NJ - some have great school systems and people pay a premium to live there whereas others have mediocre schools. Any decent real estate agent would be able to advise you - or you can research thoroughly on the web.

I am not sure what you mean by "choose" them - there are so many good public school systems but there are fairly objective criteria for what most people consider to be "excellent" or outstanding. For example, in high school, most people judge by scores in SAT; percentage of kids taking AP courses; how many kids go on to college and where; what kind of elective courses and extra curricular activities are provided. What kinds of special services like counseling/college counseling are provided.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:07 pm
I'm also a BT who went through the public school system, and feel like I got quite a good education. However, I don't think I would send my children to public school these days, and that has very little to do with religion. I'm very concerned about the mandated testing and the exclusionary emphasis on STEM studies. This is not to say that I don't think there are good public schools out there, just that the current mandates from the government, despite good intentions, are changing the schools for the worse.
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TwinsMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:26 pm
I'm very happy with my kids' public schools so far. They're starting 3rd grade at 2 diff schools next week. There are definitely people in our community who look down on us for sending to public school but the people who truly accept us for who we are realize that our kids are in the right schools for them. My husband works in the day schools (3 of them so far) and from his work and my experience volunteering in my kids' public schools I see such huge differences. If I had a neurotypical kid I might have sent to a Jewish school but might have pulled the kid out in frustration--- depending on the kid. who knows-- my kids are definitely not neurotypical. Smile
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momx6




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 8:30 pm
I'm a public school teacher in NY. Never in a million years would I send my own kids to public school. The new standards are horrible, the teachers are mean (not all, but a lot) and the kids are really crazy.
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greenhelm




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:20 pm
I know plenty of families that have some children in public school and some in Jewish school. The sad fact of the matter is that many Jewish schools have difficulty dealing with children that may have specialized educational needs, and public schools (depending on your area, of course) may be better equipped for the challenge.
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iriska_meller




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 9:55 pm
Transfered my kids to public school because
1. Could not afford Jewish day school for 2 kids
2. Was appalled by academics (and they positioned themselves as an academically strong school)
3. My daughter was bullied non-stop and when she responded to the offender she got in trouble, and the principal kept pushing me to "evaluate and medicate" her... I had my kid's therapist meet with principal and explain that the kid doesn't need medication, she needs to stop being picked on. Of course the bully was a son of school's board member so nothing happened

I'm very happy with my decision. My kids are super happy in the school, made tons of friends and teachers are amazing. The structure and accountability are really impressive.

This is in Brooklyn btw
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 10:25 pm
My son is in a bilingual Yiddish special ed class in a public school. Whenever I go visit for whatever reason I am both impressed by the facilities, availability of so many different things that you'd never find in a Jewish school, and at the same time am shocked at how some of the (non-Jewish) teachers (who are not part of our program) SCREAM and almost curse at their students, and how some of the parents of the (non-Jewish) students behave towards their children. It's really shocking.
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TwinsMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:10 pm
amazing. here it's the opposite---- I'm in the public schools at least once every couple weeks volunteering and I've NEVER seen screaming or cursing. If I did, I'd certainly reconsider whether I want my kids in school (I'm open to homeschooling, just don't think I'd be great at it because I need to make an income and balancing school with work would be hard).
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BrachaBatya




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:26 pm
Public school family here, all the way! Excellent education, does not detract from our deep Judaism. In some ways, it enhances it - our children are proud of their differences in public school. We value diversity as well as Jewish pride. We enjoy being part of a strong Jewish community as well as part of the more diverse, general community. I think balance is important. As an aside, many of the Jewish schools in our area are wrought with controversies and have a lot of problems. Some of them produce graduates who are terrible in secular areas of study - that is a huge handicap. I wouldn't want my children to have such low levels of math, English, science. So, for us, public school and happy!
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Shani88




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:37 pm
momx6 wrote:
I'm a public school teacher in NY. Never in a million years would I send my own kids to public school. The new standards are horrible, the teachers are mean (not all, but a lot) and the kids are really crazy.


I 100% agree!
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tropicalrainforest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 24 2015, 11:44 pm
I have two children in day school and one special needs child in public school. The public school my son attends is brand new , professionally run and extremely accommodating . The school population is a multitude of nationalities with a large immigrant population . The families are mostly hardworking , respectful and kind.
Our experience has been a very positive one . My husband and I were both very nervous to make the leap but glad we did .


People have judged us negatively for our choice and many people look down at us for not spending the extra money on shadows and the like to make day school work .
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amother
Blush


 

Post Tue, Aug 25 2015, 1:26 am
I'm offering a different perspective here.

I actually tutor a few kids in "kodesh" whose parents have pulled them out of the local jewish schools and transferred them to excellent non jewish schools.
These are middle and high school students so obviously different than an younger child.
The parents wanted them to have opportunities they didn't feel were abailable in the jewish schools in terms of sports and art and drama etc... And also felt that academically (particularly in the sciences) they would be better off.
And all of that is true.
However, these kids no longer daven every morning. There parents expect them to do it on the bus or wake up earlier. But they are teenagers and it's not happening.
They have a ton of homework and extra commitments as all high schoolers have and so they first thing that's drops is our after school lessons.
So they learn maybe 1/10 of "kodesh subjects" as they did before. Their own personal observances are dropping. I don't want to give specific examples. And these kids are still observant but things like waiting after meat. Or the way they dress or even things like davening etc... Are all slowly falling away
The parents are very happy with their decision, and again it's a matter of priorities in terms of parenting.
We can never give our children everything.

Just another persepctive.

Oh and I don't judge the parents. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, especially for one of their children. But I respect them for really trying to do what they believe is best.

Anon because people know me and I don't feel comfortable talking about my students like this.
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