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S/o venettini -food stamps
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:15 pm
[quote="amother"]exactly my point. your mother didn't work. why not? why were you on food stamps if she wasn't contributing? instead of running around to sales, and being a shopaholic, maybe working and contributing would've been more economical?
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:16 pm
I receive food stamps.

One year I was so poor that I went to a gemach that had new shoes (not current style). The shoes were being sold for very cheap. Guess what?? My check bounced for the gemach shoes!!

This yr. my children needed school shoes. I went to a cheaper shoe store that has stylish shoes and put it on my credit card. I'm not sure how I will pay off my credit card statement but My kids are thrilled with their new stylish shoes that will hopefully last them for many many months.

You really don't know what's going on. You never know, you might be on food stamps one day too. Let's see what type of shoes your kids will wear then.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:21 pm
Rebesq wrote:
It's not their money per se . It's the attitude that kills me: הכל מגיע לי.


I don't know if you are an American but tax payers money is pooled. Once my tax money hits the govt. coffers it becomes our money, to be used for the public good. That means military spending, highways, food safety, medical research, infrastructure, just to name a few allocations aside from welfare.

If you know of someone committing welfare fraud turn them in.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:26 pm
amother wrote:
In my community there is an organization that gives a new dress and pair of European brand shoes for yom tov for hardworking parents who are struggling. So things aren't always what they seem.


You can also see the shops packed selling these shoes full price in the communities with the highest official poverty rate. People are not idiots. They see people SPENDING! Things are often what they seem.
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out-of-towner




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:29 pm
amother wrote:
In my community there is an organization that gives a new dress and pair of European brand shoes for yom tov for hardworking parents who are struggling. So things aren't always what they seem.


Right. And this is an even worse problem IMO. Tzedakka funds are being set up so that people can purchase things which are pure LUXURY. This makes people seem entitled to it. Yes, it is nice to get something special for Y"T, but that something special doesn't have to be a pair of European brand shoes which cost upwards of $70. There are some very nice shoes out there for much less. (Besides the fact that spending $$$ on children's Shabbos shoes is a huge waste IMO, as they only wear them once a week and grow out of them very quickly.)

Yes, people are entitled to spend $$$ as they wish. I for one prefer the convenience of having takeout food (or going out to eat at a moderately priced restaurant) on a semi-regular basis rather than going out to an expensive steakhouse with my husband once or twice a year on a birthday. But I choose my "luxuries" and tone down my budget in other ways. And I am not asking for Tzeddaka to fund my eating expenditures. What bothers me is those people who need to have the best of it all, and complain that they are struggling financially while still indulging in the best of it all. I have a friend who really likes her kids to wear nice European Shabbos outfits, so she spends money on them...but only buys one or two for the season. Personally, I rather my kids have more outfits of lesser quality. If you are struggling, you can't have it all. So please don't cry poverty to me when your kids are dressed to the nines every day of Y"T in new expensive clothing that you felt that you had to buy.
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rachelbg




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 7:52 pm
This all reminds me of a thread one time about a tzedakah organization that provides needy kallahs with everything they need, and they had a video about it showing you their show room. I was shocked that the 'frum standard' was so high that needy kallos were being provided things that I (a hard working person with no parental financial support) can't afford to have! Once I saw that, I thought for a second, 'hey, I really should have all of those things that they're giving the 'needy girls,' and since I don't, I must be SUPER needy - nebach I don't even have the things they give as tzedakah!'

Why are we creating standards like this?

I mean, I only care so much... I don't give in to the 'standards,' thank G-d. I care too much about other more important things.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 8:04 pm
rachelbg wrote:
This all reminds me of a thread one time about a tzedakah organization that provides needy kallahs with everything they need, and they had a video about it showing you their show room. I was shocked that the 'frum standard' was so high that needy kallos were being provided things that I (a hard working person with no parental financial support) can't afford to have! Once I saw that, I thought for a second, 'hey, I really should have all of those things that they're giving the 'needy girls,' and since I don't, I must be SUPER needy - nebach I don't even have the things they give as tzedakah!'

Why are we creating standards like this?

I mean, I only care so much... I don't give in to the 'standards,' thank G-d. I care too much about other more important things.

And in that thread, one after another people who had been on the receiving end explained how and why it is meaningful to give something above the line for tzedakah. Your average person who does not need tzedakah may not be able to afford luxuries but they do have certain other things - a measure of security, perhaps a stable home, perhaps a supportive family, various things to take comfort in and be satisfied with what they have that they were able to afford. The housewares that you bought for yourself feel satisfying to you, they are yours. You have a lot of room to hope that one day you may even be able to indulge in luxuries - today you are ok, maybe tomorrow you will be better than ok. But the person who is receiving tzedakah is in a very low, broken place. They may have nothing to take any joy in, and little reason to hope for more in the future. Maybe they are in this position because they are orphans - we can gift them with something special because their parents NEVER will - and people remember an orphaned kallah but how many people remember her ten years later and say hey, for every time my parent has helped me out a bit or given me a little something special for a birthday or yomtov, well she hasn't had that in ten years not even once. So for this once that people are doing something nice for her, if they are able to then why not make it extra nice? Maybe after the wedding her life will be extra hard and bitter and lonely because she is coming from poverty and no one has her back, maybe she will at least have a little light in her life that she goes to sleep on luxurious linens, or that she can serve her meager yomtov fare on pretty china and honor yom tov even when times are rough.

I also had my gripes with that hachnossas kallah ad, because the tone of the narration did make it sound like everyone "should" have a certain standard. I don't like that standards concept. However, I think the argument that tzedakah should not be luxury quality is not a nice argument. OK if there are limited funds and you will be able to give more people shoes if you spend less on each pair and you have similar options at different price ranges, ok definitely go with the one that can help the most people. But if a certain baal chessed decides to treat some poor people to a high-end item, I think it is a beautiful thing to do and anyone who is coming to criticize has a real, I believe in Hebrew they call it a "narrow eye" but I'm not handy with these expressions.
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Jewishmofm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 8:23 pm
I haven't read everything but .... since when does having money entitle you to anything? We're all children of the aibishter and we are all deserving of the fine things in life! You have no right to think you can buy it because you can afford it, but she can't buy it because she gets help with her expenses. You don't have a clue what's going on in her bank account, her tzedaka account, or her family's input.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 9:13 pm
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
I come from a community who does exactly all that. I have family members living in really nice bought apartments and collecting section 8. They buy their childrens clothing in the most expensive stores beginning of the season and spend more on a top than I'd ever dream. My sil collects every available benefit and yet bought herself a brand new bugaboo bee 'van gogh edition' for her last baby. She takes her kids to the most expensive photographer in town while her husband sweats his pants off to put bread on the table. And no, she's not alone. It's an epidemic.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 10:13 pm
out-of-towner wrote:
Right. And this is an even worse problem IMO. Tzedakka funds are being set up so that people can purchase things which are pure LUXURY. This makes people seem entitled to it. Yes, it is nice to get something special for Y"T, but that something special doesn't have to be a pair of European brand shoes which cost upwards of $70. There are some very nice shoes out there for much less. (Besides the fact that spending $$$ on children's Shabbos shoes is a huge waste IMO, as they only wear them once a week and grow out of them very quickly.)

Yes, people are entitled to spend $$$ as they wish. I for one prefer the convenience of having takeout food (or going out to eat at a moderately priced restaurant) on a semi-regular basis rather than going out to an expensive steakhouse with my husband once or twice a year on a birthday. But I choose my "luxuries" and tone down my budget in other ways. And I am not asking for Tzeddaka to fund my eating expenditures. What bothers me is those people who need to have the best of it all, and complain that they are struggling financially while still indulging in the best of it all. I have a friend who really likes her kids to wear nice European Shabbos outfits, so she spends money on them...but only buys one or two for the season. Personally, I rather my kids have more outfits of lesser quality. If you are struggling, you can't have it all. So please don't cry poverty to me when your kids are dressed to the nines every day of Y"T in new expensive clothing that you felt that you had to buy.

I once was on the receiving end of such donations. I can't tell you how embarrassed I was. When I saw that the outfits were so high quality, and stylish, I was so relieved-I cried! I didn't feel like a Chesed case that Yom tov.
I don't buy expensive clothing for my kids, but when you honestly can't even afford clothing for your kids, getting the best can really make a difference. It made me feel human again.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 30 2015, 10:34 pm
out-of-towner wrote:
Right. And this is an even worse problem IMO. Tzedakka funds are being set up so that people can purchase things which are pure LUXURY. This makes people seem entitled to it. Yes, it is nice to get something special for Y"T, but that something special doesn't have to be a pair of European brand shoes which cost upwards of $70. There are some very nice shoes out there for much less. (Besides the fact that spending $$$ on children's Shabbos shoes is a huge waste IMO, as they only wear them once a week and grow out of them very quickly.)

Yes, people are entitled to spend $$$ as they wish. I for one prefer the convenience of having takeout food (or going out to eat at a moderately priced restaurant) on a semi-regular basis rather than going out to an expensive steakhouse with my husband once or twice a year on a birthday. But I choose my "luxuries" and tone down my budget in other ways. And I am not asking for Tzeddaka to fund my eating expenditures. What bothers me is those people who need to have the best of it all, and complain that they are struggling financially while still indulging in the best of it all. I have a friend who really likes her kids to wear nice European Shabbos outfits, so she spends money on them...but only buys one or two for the season. Personally, I rather my kids have more outfits of lesser quality. If you are struggling, you can't have it all. So please don't cry poverty to me when your kids are dressed to the nines every day of Y"T in new expensive clothing that you felt that you had to buy.

I know someone who receives "yom tov" clothing for her children before pesach each year through tzedakah. Believe me, it is not a standard that her children need new clothing for yom tov. They receive one shabbos outfit and one robe once a year and they make use of it all year. I am so happy for them. They receive clothing once a year. Why shouldn't the organization send it in honor of yom tov instead of a few weeks later? I think that what's being done is nice.
Do my own children get new clothes for Pesach? No. They wear their winter shabbos clothes. But by shavuos they are wearing new summer shabbos clothes. Do my own children get summer robes? No, we forgo those. But they have everything that they need BH.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 12:17 am
We've rehashed this many times. But I think it would be nice if the dan lechaf zechus crowd say out loud three times: The big WE are living about our means and it is unhealthy for the community in the long term.

In other words, one can be dan lechaf zechus an individual while still seeing that the big picture is a community living out of control and creating mass dysfunction.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 5:19 am
Regarding specifically the shoes and food stamps: we grew up poor. We wore hand-me-downs, never had a luxury, ate the basic foods (potato chips was for special occasions like YT). But - shoes was one thing my mother would spend on - once or twice a year. No we didn't get brand names, but I know it's the only place my mother wouldn't go cheap, since she believed that it's important for our health (whatever). I hope no one would judge her if they see her buying her kids good shoes.

We all have our things. Getting benefits you don't deserve is one thing. But where others spend their money really should not be judged.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 5:52 am
So I've never bought Venettinis, but my son is wearing Geox and my daughter is wearing Umi (not too impressed with quality of that either), and my son's Geoxes from last year that he wore from July 2014 through the first day of school 2015 were $21 (this year I spent $39, but it averages out to $30) and my daughter's Umis were around $23. I couldn't find Stride Rites for that cheap. And considering my son's (lack of) growth rate, it didn't seem financially savvy to waste money on $20 Payless shoes that would need to be replaced when torn, before they'd be outgrown.

So sometimes the brands are not the money spent that it looks like, and it's the financially responsible choice. Surely, you wouldn't want someone like me to waste your hard earned money buying 2 $20 pairs of shoes when they can buy one pair for $23?

(I DO think there is a problem where people feel like they need European shoes; I refuse to give into that. It's just a matter of what I can find for a good price that has decent reviews online in terms of quality...and I'm totally ok with Stride Rites or Kenneth Cole Reactions or Skechers [actual brands being worn this minute] if that is what works for some of my other kids when I'm shoe shopping.)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 6:11 am
I have friends who decided to rely on government help too because they were fed up working for so many taxes
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 6:18 am
amother wrote:
exactly my point. your mother didn't work. why not? why were you on food stamps if she wasn't contributing? instead of running around to sales, and being a shopaholic, maybe working and contributing would've been more economical?
Who said it was an option? Who are YOU to judge?
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 6:35 am
amother wrote:
exactly my point. your mother didn't work. why not? why were you on food stamps if she wasn't contributing? instead of running around to sales, and being a shopaholic, maybe working and contributing would've been more economical?



Sometimes not working out side the home is more economical. Right now, I'm a SAHM. I do a lot of things that otherwise we might have to pay someone to do. We are also able to not have a car, because I'm able to take the time to walk to and from the grocery store, for example. It can be very frustrating to be told that become I'm not providing cash money, that I'm not contributing to my household. I am working, it's just not paid!
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 6:43 am
Working costs money too.
Nice wardrobe, childcare, transportation, convenience foods, supplies, cleaning lady... These are not needed if you are a SAHM, most are not needed if you are a WAHM.
There are costs and savings in every direction.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 7:23 am
Stop judging people.

Be thankful that you are able to support yourself with Kavod, others are not so lucky. You don't know what goes on in their life even if you are close with them.
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 31 2015, 7:26 am
I work full time. My job pays just about market rate but I have a ton of conveniences that make it worth it to not look for a better one. I am walking distance from my home, I don't have to wear a sheital or very dressy clothes, I can come home for lunch and nurse the baby, when I come home I feel like a mentch so I can do most of the cooking cleaning it goes on.

DH is self employed in a kodesh field that pays peanuts but it makes him happy. It works because he watches the baby so we don't pay day care. If we both worked full time jobs with daycare, two cars, regular cleaning help and takeout I am not sure we would be ahead much. Every situation is unique and we should really try and think that before we judge.
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