S/o venettini -food stamps

amother

Cyan

Mon, Aug 31 2015, 2:45 pm

I don't really want to get sidetracked here, but those communities have their own bad patterns that lead to intergenerational poverty. Having children out of wedlock is a biggie, and makes it 100 times harder to claw your way up. Even frum people, who likewise have children very young, are still ahead of the curve simply by getting married first. Also, they have their own systems of multigenerational support- grandma (who is generally quite a bit younger than typical grandma age) basically raises the grandkids so mom can work. Anyway, intergenerational support is for a very specific subset of Jews. MO don't do that. They still have the consumption issues and much higher tuition than others, but they're not for the most part, supporting married kids. Again, we have our problems, and we need to deal with them. I think it's silly to wring our hands about our issues being somehow worse than anyone else's. They really aren't, it's just perception.

spring13

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 1:16 am

The difference between unhealthy consumption in the frum community vs. non-Jewish communities is that Jews in general think of themselves as being spiritual people, not so concerned with physical matters. But then you see people getting hung up on brand names and luxuries and physical matters (like erasing women from the public sphere due to their negative influence on the male population) and it seems awfully hypocritical. People say "tznius means we're not hung up on what the white guys in Paris tell us to wear" and then go and spend hundreds of dollars on stuff made by white guys in Paris. It's not that halacha says we can't have nice things - but excessive luxury is NOT a Jewish value. There's a shvil hazahav here that bajillions of people are clearly missing.

I saw an ad for a gemach that collects high-end clothing to be sold for peanuts to women in Israel who are accustomed to wearing posh clothing but cannot afford it. I'm all for consignment shopping and donating clothes and so on, but it rubbed me the wrong way. They chose a lifestyle that inhibits their ability to afford such clothing: they made a CHOICE that was presumably based on SPIRITUAL aspirations. Designer clothing is not a RIGHT. Why are they ENTITLED to such things? I work for whatever I have and don't operate on that assumption. But there's a large segment of the frum population that by all appearances (and also by a lot of admittances) does. And that makes me mad.

mommy43

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 2:13 am

I am on food stamps I hope one day to be off of them. My kids don't really care for venettinis so I don't buy them but I do try to find them brand names on sale so they won't feel very different in school especially the older ones. I didn't buy them uggs last year and they were fine with it but told me that they were almost the only ones in the whole school that didn't have them so this year I will try to find them on sale and if it's very important for that kid she will pay half with money she earned in the summer. For myself I get just what I need on sale. The last shaitel I got was 8 years ago for about 400$ . I'm fine with that but I think it's important for kids to not have to feel different and embarrassed for being poor as much as possible.

thankyou

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 2:20 am

spring13 wrote:

Liking it is not enough . Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.
(PS I'm one of those people who would love to afford brands but can't).

leah233

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 11:07 am

Years ago I used to work for an inner city tax preparation (get your refund) business. I used to hear single mothers commonly express the sentiment that the only reason they had their multiple children to unknown fathers was because of the lifetime government support it would earn them.

On another note if you are on government assistance please don't look askance or make fun of those "Schnorrers who should get a job" from Israel or elsewhere.It is very hypocritical for people on food stamps or other programs to do so.

zigi

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 11:47 am

SRS wrote:

Another interesting project for your high school child, should they engage in any actual real research projects or papers, would be to drive to various non-Jewish communities and survey them on popular brands and styles. Has your average person that identifies as lower income, middle income, upper income, ever heard of these brands? What shoes do their children own? What type of clothing do they desire?

where I live its nikes on babies and real uggs on little girls. stoke and buggaboos are also seen in the hood.

leah233

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 11:50 am

Barbara wrote:

Fascinating.

Since 1996, the lifetime limits on receiving TANF have been 60 months (5 years total) if the family includes an adult. So there's no "lifetime" benefits there. (There are exemptions and exceptions available.)

As to food stamps, among SNAP households with at least one working-age, non-disabled adult, more than half work while receiving SNAP—and more than 80 percent work in the year prior to or the year after receiving SNAP. The rates are even higher for families with children—more than 60 percent work while receiving SNAP, and almost 90 percent work in the prior or subsequent year.

At least 23 states deny additional benefits for children who are born while the mother is receiving benefits.

So I'm guessing what you heard was sarcasm.

I sure don't see anyone in my state dealing with foodstamp time or children limits.Plus there are plenty of other programs out there.

Most of these women did work (or at least claimed to...)for the whatever the amount needed to gain the maximum Earned Income Credit refunds were.

LittleDucky

Tue, Sep 01 2015, 12:03 pm

spring13 wrote:

Thank you. I have no problem giving nice things to a gemach and don't want to make those who do need the gemach feel like nebs or feel bad that they do take. I love that tomchei shabbos sends food in plain boxes at night, so it looks like any grocery store food delivery or an amazon package. But when our attempts to even out our closets raises the level of materialism- it is an endless cycle. The rich kids will always "up the game" as they can afford it. Specialty snacks, fancy backpacks, $100 hair bows as previously discussed on imamother.... Those in true poverty seem to get this stuff cheap or free from gemachim (or yom tov vouchers etc) so they don't feel bad. It's those who are in between who get stuck.... They feel the crunch from both sides.

If we stopped trying to help everyone feel the same (and like the other thread stop having teachers tell us this is why they are bullied) then only the rich would have it. The almost rich migh buy it. But the middles and poor wouldn't feel as much pressure. There will be a lot more not wearing it, feel more comfortable picking their own styles and maybe shift the curve towards less $$$$ materialism.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Apr 25 2016, 11:00 pm

Explain to me why is it ok to stay home and not work and get government assistance? I work two jobs so my children can go to yeshiva (& yes we get tuition assistance). I would NEVER want to get government assistance I was brought up thinking that is for poor people. The way that many people take advantage of the system is a CHILUL h---m. Why is it ok to lie, why is it ok to steal from the non-jews? This is being a good person?This is the values you want your children to learn.

imalady

Tue, Apr 26 2016, 12:54 am

This is so interesting.

Frankly it is ok to stay home with your kids, because they deserve a mother who is available. Almost everyone 30 years ago had one. We might want to keep that in mind. I for one don't think its so obvious that its better to leave children all day than take gov't programs.

but OP and others, you complain about entitled attitudes, but you feel entitled to live fancier because you work full time. Mind your own finances. Working full time does not comfortable make.

I have a secret to tell you about gov't programs, people who qualify for them also qualify for whopping tax refunds right in time for Pesach. If your boss gave you a 10k bonus, your kids would also dress nicely for y"T

Oh and OP, it ain't your tax money, its China's

and on top of that, only half the people in this country pay taxes. If your tax money is going to your fellow Jew, lucky are you. You could be paying for bridges to nowhere in Alaska. or planned parenthood. or should I continue?