Would you let the baby's grandfather be sandik if...

amother

Lavender

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:33 pm

Here is the situation:
This man was abusive to me when I was growing up. This man was in my nightmares for years. I get sick to my stomach when I see him. He hurt me in ways that no one else can.

I stay far away from him, and only interact with him when obligated halachically. When discussing with a rav, I was told that I don't have to give him sandik, but it would be preferable, and the reward would be great.

The reason is because it is expected that he receive this honor and it would be publicly shaming him if he doesn't get it. Again, I don't have to even have him by my simcha, but if I want to do the most correct thing, it would be to give him sandik.

This is most definitely a case of לפום צערה

What would you do in such a situation?

ohsleepy1

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:36 pm

Knowing myself postpartum, I'm a mess, and having to deal with the bris itself, I wouldn't be able to handle it. If it was me, I wouldn't give him the honor of being sandek. Maybe another honor but I wouldn't want him touching my baby. Sorry if this isn't helpful...

LittleRed

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 9:48 pm

I absolutely would not. Why put yourself through that? Why expose your newborn to such a person? Solely so that person should maintain status? If it's something you feel you should or could do and it would be helpful or meaningful then that decision is yours to make and I hope it all works out. However, I would not involve someone like that in my simcha, let alone as sandek for my newborn. I have been in a similar situation and I have made the tough choice not to involve that relatively close family member in simchos in a particular way. I haven't felt bad about it, either. We have to protect ourselves and our families as best as we can, and if the risk is that the abuser be embarrassed, well, in my opinion that's just too bad. In some circumstances, if a former abuser makes amends or the relationship has changed in any way, you can make baby steps towards adding this person into your life and that can be a good thing. But, back to your original question, I would not give the kibbud of sandek to a former abuser who gave me nightmare for years and still makes me sick in person.

*edited for typo

Last edited by LittleRed on Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Laiya

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:08 pm

Question: Is the Rav you spoke with a community rav of a shul? Because they tend to get issues like abuse a bit better. Also, did you explain to this rav your history, and your current feelings?

I absolutely do not think you should do this, and question if you should invite him to your simcha at all. I think if you were on the level to do something like this, which is totally lifnim meshuras hadin (acc. to what you were told), that means you'd be able to do it willingly and happily.

I suspect that if you were to give this kibud, you will regret it and feel used / abused all over again, as it sounds like you still have not made peace with the situation (you still feel sick from merely seeing him).

That means you're not on the level to do something like this. Jmho.

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:08 pm

I am in the same situation. Almost due with second baby. If it's a boy I don't know what I'll do about sandek. It won't be my father, but I have been stressed about it since I found out I was pregnant. You choose the sandek to be someone you want your child to emulate and my father is not one to emulate in any way.
Do what's best for you and get lots of support. Hatzlacha and hugs.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:13 pm

amother wrote:

A viable option is to give to grandfather or someone else who is from an older generation then your father. This is because the previous generation can take precedence without it being a "slap in the face" to the grandfather who did not receive that honor (according to my rav). We already used up those options. That is why I am faced with this dilemma.

Bsha Tova! I know the stress! Hug

yenny

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 10:30 pm

I just love when they start with the reward tactic.
it makes us feel guilty and of course who doesn't want bracha.
Talk to a rav that deals with this issue so that you will feel comfortable and happy with your decision, even years later.
no I would never give this honor to an abuser,it would be a dishonor to your child.

amother

Lavender

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:30 pm

ChutzPAh wrote:

And how can a rav say that your reward will be great?

Responding to this because you are not the first to bring it up.

Basically, if he doesn't get sandik, and it goes to someone else who regularly would not get precedence, it would be a "slap in the face" to him. In other words it would be publicly shaming him.
To go to such extent to avoid publicly shaming anyone is worthy of great reward in the world to come.

That is why I am torn.

On one hand I don't want that man near any of my children! Ever! I don't want him being mashpia anything on any of them!

On the other hand, overcoming one's self in such a strong way, just not to embarrass another human being in public, may make it all worth it. Maybe that zchus will be Stronger than any hashpua from that man.

I suffered a lot in my life, from this man. I think the only lesson I learned from him is to live for the world to come. It would actually be a befitting revenge!

Then again, I posted here to see if my reaction and struggle is typical thinking. It is not. It is probably fueled by unhealthy thinking, if I'm the only one thinking this way. And the posters who responded have proven themselves previously to have sound judgement.

Now I am even more torn!

amother

Lilac

Mon, Sep 07 2015, 11:47 pm

OP, I grew up with an abusive father. Like you, I stay far, far away and only speak to him when necessary (when he is in front of me and I therefore need to respond). When I see him I quake. And no. I would not let.
But I understand the way you feel torn. I know what this is all about.
Hug

Mimisinger

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:05 am

NOT A CHANCE. To do so is a)validating how he treated you and b) opening the door for him to come back in your life. How can you give kavod to someone who not only does not deserve it but to do so in public. Not to mention what it would do to you PP. Find someone else. A grandfather, your father-in-law, a Rav, the mailman. Anyone but him!

amother

Taupe

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:08 am

Op, mazel tov on the baby and on the bris!
I really do not think you need to worry about the kavod of this monster. Let him feel shame for once. Let him feel bad. You've felt enough bad feelings because of him, and continue to feel those feelings. Please, do not let this abuser mar your simcha in any way.
I was told , by a rabbi, to name my son after a grandfather- who had the same name as my abuser, but I couldnt. I couldn't bear to give the name. So guess what, I didnt. We have suffered enough, and now we can be in control and move on. With all due respect, it does not sound like either of our rabbis had proprer abuse training. And neither of us were advised properly.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:12 am

Am I really fooling myself to think that giving to him would be rising above it all?
That is the impression I am getting from everyone.
Eta: the impression I'm getting is that I am fooling myself.