teen ds moving more to the right.....

amother

Peach

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 11:34 am

boysrus wrote:

just an observation:
it sounds to me like your biggest part of teh problem is the principal, hanhala adn rebbeim. It is nebach that in our kids schools the teachers are not always adequate role models of mentchlichkeit. for example, I know for a fact that my sons current 10th grade rebbi is very racist and says racist things in class about our african american neighbors. I cannot handle this, it makes me so angry. and you know what, I have been known to complain to rebbeim about this.
if your sons principal is calling cholov stam, cholov yishamel, that's crazy! he is part of the source of the problem,

I woudl suggest you call a meeting between yourself, your dh, principal and rebbi, adn say
my kid is doing great, you are helping to make him into a great frum guy, but I am so so bothered by what else is happening to him. You (rebbi and principal) are so influential on him htat he is picking up on your imperfections too without realizing that theyare imperfections. why is he becoming racist? why are you teaching him that frum means OTT about not looking at women etc? what is going on?

you h ave to advocate for your child. unfortunatley I see this problem happening in mykids schools too. Some kids likeyour son like it and get brainwashed by it, others get turned off by it and drop out or even go OTD

I wish you luck. Ner israel might be similar to your school in brainwashing tactics, no way of knowing wihtout talking to people who send their kids there....

agree 100% and had a whole meeting with the president of the school board and head master etc. Got a lot of lip service, some of it got better, some the principal denied, but ask any boy in school and they will tell you what he has said.
dh thinks it is a waste of time talking to them cuz it will get no where, I am all for talking it out, but having a big black and blue mark on my head from banging it against the wall right before rosh hashana may not look too attractive. Very Happy

So worried about the brainwashing and that exploding in his face. Don't really have any guidance or rabbi's that would be a good fit for him to talk to and dh's rebbi is not well enough to have a heart to heart with.
I don't get why rabbeim think it is ok to put other nationalities done- we are all hashem's creations- maybe that is my Bais Yaakov upbringing, this is just crazy. I shouldn't have to send my ds away for school- Maybe that is what I need to tell them, gonna pull him out if it doesn't change , but I have to be willing to follow through on the threat.

boysrus

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 11:39 am

amother wrote:

president of the board.... that was a good idea, but unfortunately it didnt help, sorry about that...

I often feel that there is a bit of disconect between the board and the principals/rebbeim, as the members of hte board are not always educators so dont always 'get' exactly what's going on in the school however much they insist that they do. (lots of personal expereince, family members on the board, family memebrs who are educators etc...)

hatzlacha What

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 12:10 pm

amother wrote:

like in camp not realizing he would not have enough clothing for the 9 days-and not telling anyone so wearing dirty clothing instead of asking one of the rabbeim what to do(yes he was embarresed to ask, but assumed that he couldn't do anything else about it.)- commons sense stuff like that. But I think kids don't generally think ahead like that.

That's typical teen.

I gotta say, as someone who keeps CY, I cringed to read your post about Chalav Yishmael. ew. I would be uncomfortable with my kids hearing something like that.

imasinger

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 3:02 pm

Two of my kids went further to the right of where DH and I sit.

It is a tricky thing to see the disdain, but one has to remember that ALL teens roll their eyes and something. It could be at those who are on a different derech (or are not Jewish), it could be at those who are "oh so holy". Kids this age are developing their value systems, and, like all beginners, have a tendency to go overboard at first.

My suggestion is to encourage him in everything that you find honorable, to discourage him in anything he does that you find dishonorable (like rudeness to the nurse), and be sure to keep sharing your own values with him at all times.

I bet he will find his way eventually.

And add me to the list of those who would choose Ner Yisroel over going to EY just yet. You think you are worried about who he is becoming right now? See what happens when you send him halfway across the world, with far less chance for you to see him and influence his thinking.

Fox

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 3:08 pm

Teenage boys are bundles of walking hormones, so many times IME, rebbeim encourage stringencies that they might not encourage in older boys.

Likewise, some of the ideals promoted in yeshiva are designed to foster sensitivity over the long-run -- not necessarily to inform adult behavior.

As other posters have said, allow your son to identify with his rebbeim and give him an opportunity to explain and defend their views on various topics. Be interested, respectful, and more-or-less supportive of the underlying goals if not always the specifics.

Above all, don't allow yourself to be placed on the defensive. A lot of extremism on both ends of the observance spectrum can be curtailed if parents don't allow themselves to get ruffled by implied or explicit rejection.

morah

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 3:56 pm

I can give you a little perspective having been the teen who went to the right. Indeed, the point that it could be the other way is a good one. When people used to comment to my mom about me, she'd say "Look, kids rebel. I'll take a long skirt over a tattoo any day" Smile

. That said, we both made mistakes along the way. My parents did try to resist even after it was clearly no longer a phase. They took it personally. They called me a crazy fundamentalist. This is not a good road to go down. Lest you think my parents are terrible people, I can assure you that I was NOT an innocent victim of all this. I disrespected my parents majorly. I saw the light, whereas they were merely adherents of Convenience Judaism. I was so busy being fervently religious, I forgot to pay attention to the Fifth Commandment. So, I think you are within your rights to remind him that he has an obligation of kibbud av va'em no matter what, but you have to stop picking fights with him or forcing him into any corners. That's just based on my own experience.
As to the school, I think you need to take him out of there. I'm not generally a fan of sending away at this age, especially given that the kid is not exactly, shall we say, grounded, but if Ner Yisroel is a consideration, I think it could work out very nicely. I know a number of young men who went there who all came out wonderfully.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 4:29 pm

Just be aware that if his rebbeim are really 'black' (in the hat department, that is), they may put down Ner Yisrael as a "grey hat" yeshiva! IOW, if your son is drawn to the right, he may not be willing to go there.

But, as others have said, try to be accepting (of things like looking away from women) and respectful (if you feel you must say "we don't appreciate racist talk in our home").

My DS puts his head down for kiddush so the brim of his hat hides his face. When I finally asked him why, he said something like "well, in case not all of your hair is covered."

I just laugh it off (we're pretty yeshivish, but. yes, there can be a hair or two sticking out. But he even does it on the rare occasion I wear a sheitel!)

I think you have to allow a mature child to find their own path, but you're certainly allowed to have rules in your house (e.g. "You may not disrespect Grandma" which may result in him not being home if she wears short sleeves.)

I often say that in my next life I want to be in a family where my sons will allow me to sing zemiros. It's not that they don't allow it - it's just that they won't sing if I sing, and they have better voices...

cbsp

Tue, Sep 08 2015, 5:08 pm

(You have my sympathy. My oldest is not a teenager yet but I was one once and I think I remember that time quite well. I do not remember it being a pleasant experience for any parties involved - yet no one acted intentionally maliciously)

Just an observation based on your reaction:

It seems like he's trying to live the RW lifestyle/hashkofas of the Yeshiva you sent him to. (Not the racist part, but the not saying hello to women/girls for sure). Why are you taking offense/taking it personally? Do you really think the sole reason a teenage boy would not say hi to a girl is to spite his mother?

He's a teen. In his eyes it's not about you, it's about him finding himself.

Would you take his comments as personally if he learned all about nutrition and physical fitness and he decided to apply it to himself - with the occasional comments to you and your husband as you served heaping platters of fried chicken and insisted he load up and finish his second helping? That would be his way of taking care of his body, he seems to be looking to take care of his spirituality here.

Also, FWIW, we eat cholav stam. My husband has humorously answered when asked if we only eat CY "we're makpid on cholav yishmoel" I honestly believe that nothing evil was intended in your son's response, it seems to be a common play on words.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Sep 09 2015, 9:20 am

Quote:

off topic---but a mother is kol isha???? I LOVE singing with my boys and were pretty yeshivish

I have never heard that anyone holds that a mother can't sing in front of DH or sons. BUT they will not sing zemiros with Hashem's name while I am singing - why can't they sing without Hashem's name? No idea.

They're just fanatically religious. You know. Everyone to the right of me is fanatically religious. Everyone to the left of me is modern. And there's U in the middle. = FR U M

OOTforlife

Wed, Sep 09 2015, 9:30 am

cbsp wrote:

Your analogy only works if OP agrees that her derech is the spiritual equivalent of junk food, and that not greeting women is spiritually "healthier." I can't speak for her, but if my child became unwilling to greet members of the opposite s-x and began parroting racist opinions, I would (using your analogy) see it as equivalent to going on some fad diet that only permits cayenne pepper, cabbage, bone broth, and broccoli. I would not be offended as much as worried for my child's health.

Chayalle

Wed, Sep 09 2015, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

off topic---but a mother is kol isha???? I LOVE singing with my boys and were pretty yeshivish

never heard that one before Love it!!!

I grew up singing with my father and brothers. But with DH, I sing zemiros with him (when not niddah) but not Pesukim from the Torah. So for example, I sing Shalom Aleichem but not Aishes Chayil. I don't sing Mizmor L'David but I do sing Yedid Nefesh with DH.

I think it's a yeshivish thing, and looks like there are different versions of it because I do sing other zemiros with DH that have Hashem's name. Guess I'm luckier than I thought.

cbsp

Wed, Sep 09 2015, 11:22 am

OOTforlife wrote:

I disagree with you equating not saying hello to a lady (which does have a source, whether that's your derech or not) and blatant racism (which certainly does not have a source). But that wasn't my point so I'll go with your analogy of what seems to be an extreme take on supposedly taking care of one's body by going with the latest fads. You'd be concerned; OP is offended and taking it personally. That's what I was questioning.