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Boozy guest - whose job is it to police?
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2015, 1:07 pm
Whether a specific individual meets the criteria to be labelled an alcoholic or not, there's a problem when any seuda or social event becomes so focused on the alcohol that its absence significantly diminishes people's enjoyment and simcha.

My own suggestion would be to get a bottle of very good wine for each meal -- better than you would ordinarily purchase. If comments or "jokes" are made about the lack of hard liquor, just say, "Oh, we're really getting into wine these days, and we thought it would be nicer to have some really good wines."

This may get you a reputation as being somewhat eccentric, but it sounds like alcohol is starting to assume a bit too important role within your family/chevra and redefining the definition of simchas Yom Tov.
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spring13




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2015, 1:59 pm
amother wrote:
LOL You are hysterical especially with the TV comment. If you only knew how right you are. I am not worried about being stingy but I am worried the family will think we dislike them. The wife is sensitive that we should like her DH. They know how we entertain so it does send a clear message by stopping the booze after one. I am not sure if they can figure out why rather than get hurt.


She doesn't have a problem with his drunken behavior? Does she really not get it already? If you'd enjoy his company more minus the drinking, then it makes perfect sense to skip the booze and then not resent their presence. THAT would do a lot more to get you guys to like him than enabling his bad behavior.

Again, your house your rules. If the lack of alcohol makes them unhappy, that's their problem and not yours. This isn't a weird personal quirk of yours that inconveniences others: it's what you need to do to preserve dignity and peace in your home. You don't owe them booze and shouldn't have to feel guilty for not supplying it.
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2015, 5:03 pm
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd much rather my shabbat or yom tov table be a little "less nice" because it lacked alcohol than because there was a sloppy drunk being all kinds of inappropriate. Wine should elevate a seudah - it sounds as though it would have the opposite effect with this fellow around.

I'd have a small amount of wine out for kiddush and that's it. Have some nice other drinks like lemonades or something fun. Or good fruit juices with soda water, something festive and refreshing.

ETA: If someone comments on the lack of booze, then say "well, with all the chagim there are so many l'chaims, I thought we'd enjoy these lovely drinks instead. It just gets to be so much!" or something to that effect. You could also have a nice fruit platter and some sorbet for dessert and make the same comment saying with all the seudahs, you've found it nice to just have a light dessert of fruit. That way, everyone will assume you're on a healthy-eating kick, it won't be all about the alcohol, and guests won't be embarrased.


Last edited by Miri7 on Fri, Sep 25 2015, 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2015, 5:06 pm
I agree with Fox. I mean I agree with everyone else as well, but under the circumstances... get a really GREAT bottle of wine, like a Château d'Yquem, and that's it.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2015, 7:46 pm
Have you spoken to the wife to discuss this issue?

She may have techniques she uses at home, or be only too grateful to have you on board with managing her husband's behavior when it comes to drinking.

I think controlling his misuse of alcohol in order to have simchat yomtov for your household is more important than having free flowing wine for simchat chag, but I come from a relatively teetotal family and society so the idea of drinking plenty of alcohol with meals is not really familiar or chashuv IMO. A single l'chaim is plenty for most people, and maybe half will decline even that.

Is your dh so fixated on having alcohol that dealing with a drunken guest is less disruptive to him than having an alcohol lite meal or four?
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amother
Blue


 

Post Sun, Oct 04 2015, 12:37 am
amother wrote:
1 - Yes, there are levels of alcoholism. Kiddush club alcoholics, as you call them, can be a real nuisance and very embarrassing. But alcoholism is usually understood as the need of alcohol on a daily basis. It doesn't mean you always get drunk. When I used to drink, I would maybe get drunk twice a year. I was perfectly able to control myself in terms of getting drunk.

2 - I stopped drinking years ago. On Shabbos and YT I now usually drink a bit of wine, but that's it. I never went to AA, nor did I go to some doctor or therapist. Realizing I was just destroying my health drinking and not solving anything, with Hashem's help, I gradually stopped drinking. It wasn't easy.


An alcoholic cannot control his/her drinking. So it sounds like you are not and never was one.
It does sound like the ops guest is an alcoholic. If they KNOW he will get drunk, leave it off te table. Or remove it after the l'chaim. The wife will probably be secretly relieved that its off the table and her dh will not get drunk.

Signed, ex-wife of an alcoholic
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Sun, Oct 04 2015, 4:46 am
OP here: The guest behaved. We limited the alcohol for everyone. The wife gave her husband reminders not to drink too much. They want to come again for the second days. DH was not happy and would rather not deal with this again. The family doesn't have a place.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 04 2015, 5:45 am
I'm glad it blew over without incident, and that his wife was helpful. Enjoy the remaining haggim.
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