Dh wants me to stop shaving

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:03 pm

im chassidish and rebbishe background. dh (and I) have cooled off from rebbishness and chasidishkeit but otherwise is frum. our children attend very chassidish schools.
my dh has gotten a heter for me to stop shaving but before I do something so drastic, I need to learn a bit where and what this mesorah stems from.
I need to know this so I can stand up strong when my family will inevitably criticize and judge. I need to know for myself so that I dont feel as though I am doing something wrong.

FYI my DH looks completely chassidish - he doesnt have the guts to change, Im the gutsy one, and nobody will chalk this up to him...it will be me getting the judgement and blame....

FranticFrummie

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:13 pm

If you cover completely, how would anyone know what you do with your hair?

I shave my temples and the back of my neck, and no one knows how long my hair is under the cover. Unless your mikva lady is a total gossip (G-d forbid) then I think you're safe. Shalom bayis is really important, a lot more so than what the neighbors will say.

It's not really so "drastic" if you think of it this way. Hair takes a long time to grow, so you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea, and you can always reevaluate as you go along. You can always shave it again if it really bothers you. You're not doing anything permanent.

Heck, while you're at it, dye it purple! Wink

Maya

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:17 pm

FF is right, there is no reason why anyone needs to know about this. Always keep your head covered as you did until now.

The mesorah on this is shaky at best. If someone does find out, a simple "my husband wasn't finding me attractive and asked that I stop shaving" should be enough. If it isn't, that person can go fly a kite. It's not your problem.

I'm speaking as someone who shaved for nine years and then stopped. It's no one's business but your own.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:17 pm

op here.

when you wear a snood/ bandana everyone can tell. I didnt think of shaving just around the temples...I actually let my hair grow for four months but ended up chickening out from guilt and shaving bcause I got an earful from my mother who is convinced that Im going OTD and even told my siblings....

Maya

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

Do you wear a sheitel at all, or just tichels?

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:22 pm

Maya wrote:

can you really hide it?
mesorah is shaky- what do you mean by that? can you give me details? I need to know the meaning of this. in some communities, they wont let you toivel in their mikva if you dont shave- satmar.

where does this mesorah come from and what is it all about? I need an answer from someone who is strong in this so I can judge for myself from both sides.

Maya

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:28 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, you can hide it, if you always wear a sheitel in front of company. It's not as comfortable as a snood but worth it if you really need to hide your hair.

Unless you live in KJ, you shouldn't have a problem finding other mikvaos to toivel in. In Williamsburg there's Pupa. Or you can do as I did, and pretend to be a foreigner in the Satmar Willi mikvah. Smile

You can search this site for the many threads discussing this issue, and you will see for yourself that no one has a real, clear answer as to the origins of this minhag. I was taught it's mandatory in order to avoid even one hair escaping the hair covering, but that's surely nowhere near what the halacha requires.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:29 pm

Please forgive me for being blunt. You don't have a hair problem, you have a boundary problem. People can only "make you feel guilty" if you give them permission to do so.

You need to practice a firm, polite, and unapologetic "None of your business" stance. What goes on between you and your husband is not up for public discussion. Period. End of sentence. Pass the kugel.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:34 pm

I don't want to to EVER tell anyone to go against their mesorah. But here it is a question of shalom bais, which is also very important.
Can you and DH sit down with a rav that you are both comfortable and discuss it. then if anyone does have a problem with it - you can say you made the decision with da'as torah and stop it there. And even for your own sanity\guilt you will know you went about it the right way.

[Recently in the daf yomi there was a discussion if a husband is allowed to prevent his wife from becoming a nazir because he doesn't like her shaving her head and finds it unattractive...its not like its an unheard preference]

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:37 pm

Maya wrote:

Maya, too funny about pretending you're a foreigner in satmar mikvah!! They actually said anything to you? And once you said that you're not from here, they left you alone?

amother

Slategray

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:40 pm

It seems like its you that wants to change and not your dh, (I'm the gutsy one)
You should do what you want ,it's your life but are you coming here so that pple should tell you that your doing the right thing?

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:56 pm

amother wrote:

the background to this is long and complicated and not for this thread. it includes traumas, and ten painful years of personal, and spiritual struggles on my husbands side. at the end, for many reasons, I too have become disillusioned with chassidishkeit. but NOT yiddishkeit. however, my kids are comfortably ensconced in thier schools and I cant just uproot them due to my disillusionment. I am trying to live as authentic a life as I can without sending them wrong messages.

my appearance has changed to a less chassidish and rebbish one over the years with the support of my Rav. however, shaving my hair seems pretty major, if you know where I was coming from. (I am not satmar. I am from a prominent rabbonisha family. hence my extended familys mortification.)

I was just trying to get a clear picture of the mesorah. nobody seems to be able to give a clear answer, least of all my Rav. I do not need the go ahead of a bunch of anonymous opinionated (no offence!) women.

can anyone post links from old threads? I tried searching but couldnt find answers.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 7:56 pm

If it's just your husband who wants you to stop shaving and he got the "heter" for it why the need to do research about the stemming of this mesorah?

Is it also likely that in reality it's you that doesn't want to shave and that's why you are so shaky about the mesorah thing?

If it's the former and your mother and sisters notice it you can just tell them the "truth" that you are doing this because your husband wants it and he got a heter for it.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 8:05 pm

amother wrote:

youre right. I dont want to shave. ( and truthully, which woman would, if given the choice... Wink

) as I said, Im disillusioned with chassidishkeit. however I want to make an informed decision. I am not like one of these people who are all like " my husband lets me do a, b, ,c and then to whatever and whenever they want. Im being pressured by my husband but its ultimately in my hands. I have the go ahead... but where does this come from, chassidish or kabbalah and what is it all about?

Happy18

Thu, Sep 24 2015, 8:21 pm

I don't really understand the shaving the head vs not. It's not at all something that I can relate to. I will say that you have a halachic psak to not shave. Shaving is no longer halacha for you therefore anyone who makes you feel bad about it should just be quiet.