Dh wants me to stop shaving

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:14 am

imasoftov wrote:

0) "The topic or post you requested does not exist"
1) how many generations ago was this?
1a) how can we tell if a minhag is newer or older?
2) do we have the minutes of these meetings? or even the proclamation issued at the end?
3) which beit din instituted shlissel challah?

My husband says that there are written documentations (sefarim) available that provide accurate information on details of asifa events / dates of rulings of minhagim, etc.

One can inquire in sefarim stores or even through their rav.

Last edited by Butterfly on Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total

Maya

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:15 am

Butterfly wrote:

We do not have the ability to nullify a Minhag without the endorsement of a Bais Din. Only a Bais Din can create or nullify a MINHAG...
Unfortunately those Bais Din's don't exist nowadays anymore, therefore the Minhagim are still as valid as they were when they were created.

If one has an issue with a certain Minhag it should be discussed with a prominent Rav. Only He has the ability (in today's times) to issue a valid heter...

a. Why can't we institute beis dins now to nullify some of the minhagim, just like beis dins were instituted a few hundred years ago? What is now different than was then?

b. Why are you capitalizing "he" for a Rav as if you are talking about Hashem?
Besides, one rav can give a heter, but we can't find enough of them to make a group to nullify the minhagim that are no longer relevant? Your post is one long piece of apologetics. Nothing more.

amother

Navy

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:27 am

When I got married I was so upset about shaving so I left over some pieces here and there but then I got so used to it I started loving the feeling. There are beautiful bandanas berets not talking about wigs

Maya

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:35 am

amother wrote:

We can just as well wear these beautiful bandanas and berets without shaving.

imasoftov

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 5:35 am

workaholicmama wrote:

It does exist, but since it's in the chasidishe velt not everyone can access it.

It really would cut down on confusion if instead of saying the post doesn't exist it would say you aren't a member of whatever forum. Let's say someone directed me to a post in a private forum for help, wouldn't it be good to say "sorry, you're not a member of the X forum, to join you must etc etc etc if you meet the criteria, click here to send a message to Plonit who controls access to the forum.

Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 6:29 am

Maya wrote:

First of, in case you haven't noticed in many of my several thousands of posts, I sometimes capitalize and sometimes don't. I don't put much emphasis on whether "rav" or mikvah should or shouldn't be capitalized...

I too asked the same question as you did (in the bolded)
My husband says that reason the Rabbanim of this generation can not institute bais Din in this generation is because they are not at the same level of madreiga as were the previous gedolim who had the spiritual powers to institute new minhagim with Bais din.
A lesser madreiga Rabbi / bais din cannot nullify one of higher standards.

B"H there are very prominent rabbanim nowadays who are very well learnt. they know how to analyze situations and when needed they too have the ability to provide heters.

It's important to take into account that when a minhag was proclaimed by bais din those were only applicable to the continents cities / towns / countries where those gedolim resided and not to the entire world...

Maya, if my posts about this subject come across as apologetic I apologize about that. It's not my intention at all to come across that way. I am trying my best to explain the true reasoning behind 'minhagim' as I was taught! (and explained to me by my DH) with nothing else intended.

In fact I understand very well and sincerely commiserate with the ones who have a difficult time adhering to some of their their family minhagim.
I don't judge and certainly don't feel holier than thy just because of myself keeping the minhagim I was bought up with B"H..

For me shaving is not a nisoyan and neither my husband nor myself are bothered by it at all. In fact, my husband likes it allot........ (gosh I revealed too much embarrassed

)

How I wish I could be in the spiritual madreiga of so many women I am personally acquainted with, who don't adhere to this minhag, yet are so much more spiritual and better than I am.

5mom

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 7:14 am

Butterfly wrote:

My husband says that reason the Rabbanim of this generation can not institute bais Din in this generation is because they are not at the same level of madreiga as were the previous gedolim who had the spiritual powers to institute new minhagim with Bais din.
A lesser madreiga Rabbi / bais din cannot nullify one of higher standards.

B"H there are very prominent rabbanim nowadays who are very well learnt. they know how to analyze situations and when needed they too have the ability to provide heters.

I'm confused by this logic. If every generation is inferior to the one that came before, how could rabbanim ever make takanos or allow people to stop keeping a minhag?

Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 9:19 am

workaholicmama wrote:

It does exist, but since it's in the chasidishe velt not everyone can access it.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was in the chassidish velt. I haven't been there in a very long time. That thread was from five years ago.

Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 9:39 am

5mom wrote:

I'm confused by this logic. If every generation is inferior to the one that came before, how could rabbanim ever make takanos or allow people to stop keeping a minhag?

And how do you think Torah shebal peh came about? It didn't all happen at Har Sinai.
It took generations after generations after generations... Gemara, Rashi, Tosfos, Shilchan urach, etc etc etc.
At this point and time it is what it is; "Bais Din" is over!

Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 12:07 pm

Maya wrote:

It's an uncontested fact that Satmar rebbe was seen as the "leader" of most Chassidish rebbes in Brooklyn, and the others all institutes rules based on what the Satmar rebbe said. Examples are shaving, no driving, wearing seamed tights (mostly Pupa took that one), etc.

Maya you are putting the shaving issue in the same catagory as the seams and driving takonas while you are very well aware that those are two entirely different ball games.

As other posters have already specified; Shaving wasn't constituted after the war. It was a minhag that was constituted generations ago way before the war by endorsement of bais din at a particular time and is therefore considered 'minhag'! Whereas driving and seams are NOT minhag, only takonos!

Satmar Rebbe only re-inforced the minhag of shaving again after the war because due to the tzaros people endured during the war many strayed from various halachos and minhagim they have kept before the war.

Satmer Rebbe basically re-constructed yiddishkeit in America during a time when there was a bare minimum of (if?) Kosher shechita, shmiras Shabbas, chalav yisroel, mikvaos, schools, yeshivahs etc etc.

About the takonos of driving or wearing seamed stockings, those are takonos only. He instituted those in America.
Those are certainly not profound minhagim! Those are only tikanos!
Therefore women, even of Satmer chasidos, who don't adhere to those takonos aren't liable of straying of minhag/halacha.

marina

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 12:21 pm

Electric shavers were invented in 1928. The gillette type were mass produced in early 1900s. Is that what our ancestors in the shtetl had? Their little stores carried gillette razors? They got a shipment in from America? I'm just not seeing it.

marina

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 12:25 pm

Butterfly wrote:

And this is straight up apikorsus. Orthodox Jews believe that the entire oral torah was given at Sinai.

Butterfly

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 12:32 pm

marina wrote:

And this is straight up apikorsus. Orthodox Jews believe that the entire oral torah was given at Sinai.

Marina you are 100% correct. I just re-read my previous post. I mistakenly wrote oral Torah instead of Torah Shebichsav/written Torah...

Of course the entire oral Torah is Torahs Moshe and was given at Sinai. However, the factual writings / translations were done later on during the times of the Tanayim and Amoraim, Rashi, gemara, tosfos, chazal, etc. The Oral Torah (Torah baal peh) and the written Torah (Torah shebichsav) are one! Both are Torah's Moshe from Sinai!

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 1:49 pm

Maya wrote:

It is? I never heard this before. That is so interesting.
And as I wrote previously, other chassidisun do NOT shave because the satmar rebbe instituted it. My family shaved before the satmer rebbe was around.

Also, even the chasiddisun that don't / didn't get along with satmer still follow these minhagim so how can that be?

amother

Purple

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 1:56 pm

Maya wrote:

I'm wondering if u r Satmar. It's usually a thing that I hear from Satmar ppl. Sanze was also going strong after the war for all I know.....

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

I'm wondering if u r Satmar. It's usually a thing that I hear from Satmar ppl. Sanze was also going strong after the war for all I know.....

Maya did grow up satmar.
(I'm taking the liberty of responding for her as she has made it public.)

amother

Purple

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

Maya did grow up satmar.
(I'm taking the liberty of responding for her as she has made it public.)

I went to Satmar school n until I got married I always thought that Satmar was the first n the biggest n all after the war. That's what we were told.....
Nothing wrong. Just sometimes ppl don't know more than what they're told....

Maya

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 2:11 pm

amother wrote:

Note that in my first post about this I specifically mentioned Brooklyn.
Even if they weren't the biggest, their leader was certainly the loudest and most outspoken and many other rebbes copied his takanos and minhagim or whatever you wanna call them.

amother

Purple

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 2:13 pm

Maya wrote:

U mentioned brooklyn as in what?
Am I right or wrong? Was sanze cheder open before Satmar in Brooklyn?

Maya

Sun, Sep 27 2015, 2:16 pm

amother wrote:

U mentioned brooklyn as in what?
Am I right or wrong? Was sanze cheder open before Satmar in Brooklyn?

I don't know, and this is not about firsts.

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