Holidays feel meaningless to me - and gluttonous

EnnuiGalore

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 8:55 am

BT here for a long time now. At this point chagim seem self-indulgent, inconvenient, and needlessly expensive. I suppose it's nice to see friends over yom tov but every year that passes I resent it more and more. I fake enthusiasm for my kids. I know Torah is supposed to be timeless, but a lot of the mitzvot just feel antiquated and...I'll say it again - meaningless to me. Welp, folks, there's your Debbie Downer post for the day. :-/

etky

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 9:50 am

Well Tishrei is certainly replete with holidays, and that means food!
In chutz la'aretz even more so.
The truth is that the whole way we've come to celebrate is gluttonous and if the food were dialed back somewhat it would be better all around: less stress and pressure to cook and prepare, less expense, less over-eating, less preoccupation with the material aspect of the holidays and more time to focus on the spiritual side, less waste etc.
I think that way too much food is served and consumed over the holidays.
When there is no overlap with Shabbat, as this year, it is also much worse in all respects foodwise.

As for meaning- I think Succot is way more challenging than the High Holidays in that respect.
There is a historical aspect to the chag but it is kind of weak, not like Pesach or Shavuot which commemorate dramatic events that took place on a specific date.
The meaning behind Succot and its symbols is pretty obscure. A lot can be read into it but very little is explicit. We are commanded to be happy on this holiday but we are not really told why these days in particular. Some look at it as an intellectual exercise - to find reasons to be happy and rejoice and to appreciate everything that we have and usually take for granted.

In ancient times the holiday had an important agricultural significance - marking the end of the harvest season and celebrating the bounty that Hashem bestowed on us. We don't feel that so much anymore and in chutz la'aretz even less so.
In ancient times one also did aliya laregel which we don't do anymore since the destruction.
Then there is Hakhel at the end of each shmitta cycle and we don't really have that anymore either.

Shmini Atzeret is also quite a vague holiday and all that remains of it today is tefilat geshem which is also linked to E"Y and the agricultural cycle.
So Simchat Torah was instituted later on to fill the void and I actually think it does inject content into the holiday pretty well. Maybe look to Simchat Torah for meaning and focus on how the Torah impacts your life every single day of the year.

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 10:38 am

grace413 wrote:

There's no halacha to have 8 course meals, 3 different main dishes, 4 deserts, 6 appetizers etc.

And to be honest, I think it's the women who are to blame for the excess - we want to show what great balabustas we are.

there's a great reason for women learning more Torah - less fattening and inexpensive.

I don't do the Martha Stewart stuff but we do have good food, and lots of it. Though it's not just brisket: it's also nice salads, melons, etc.

Personally, I love cooking. I'm grateful to have family including grandchildren and to get to see them.

But as I pull it off this year, I can't remember how I pulled it off when the kids were little. I definitely could keep late nights more easily but it's not just the cooking, cleaning, laundry - it's also somehow having the kids feel good about yom tov. I guess they didn't notice all the housekeeping balls I dropped but enjoyed the food, treats, toys, outings, etc. At least I hope so.

Now you might ask, where did I fit in? Good question. Since I'm not burnt out now, I must have had my crutches and treats. I know that the week after yom tov was downtime for me, maybe a good book, walking, easy suppers.

Ennui, I guess I didn't have any great answers for you. I offer you hugs and my best wishes. It's not an easy time to be raising kids now, and hatzlacha! Actually, I'll ask you this: what animates you? What can you fit into your schedule to fill you in a non-physical way, whether it's exercise, shiurim, outings (I think Nov. is Jewish book fair month; if you have one nearby there's always something interesting to catch), other? Who is the you at the core of all this?

Laiya

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 11:04 am

Funny I started appreciating the yamim tovim more in the last couple years.

The "ritualistic" aspects are what make our traditions endure from 1 generation to the next. If on pesach we merely spoke about yetzias mitzrayim, for instance, but did not scrub our houses, sell chometz etc., eventually, it would all be forgotten. The feeling of, Hashem took my ancestors out of Egypt--this feeling can only happen to me, 3,000 years later, and I can believe it to be true--because my parents and grandparents went to such lengths to keep the holiday.

Re too much food. Yes. 100% agree. I have tried to scale back the cooking and effort this year. I think the food is a part of it all to make the y"t something that we adults can look forward to and enjoy, if not for the ruchniyus, then for the gashmiyus.

But if it's not enjoyable, then what's the point?

zaq

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 11:37 am

grace413 wrote:

This.
For the same money spent on buying or making any of the revoltingly gooey and overblown desserts everyone is making "lich'vod YomTov" , you could buy a magnificent exotic fruit or three and serve a stunning fruit platter for dessert. Ditto all the other chazzerei people serve this time of year.

freedomseek

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 11:42 am

Maybe meaningful is relative. For me it's enough to sit with my husband and kids and talk , eat , and laugh through the meals .
I daven every day and do the mitzvos.
I Dress nicely, relax, read , or visit family.
It's enjoyable from my position.

I'm describing it to you because it wasn't always that way for me . I had times when it was stressful between my husband and I , that was even harder on holidays.
I had times when I expected too much on yom tov, as if it had to be some majorly holy experience ......
I learned to enjoy the simple things and that's meaningful to me now .

zaq

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 11:51 am

Laiya wrote:

But if it's not enjoyable, then what's the point?

Umm..because Yahadus is not just about having fun and we don't throw away traditions because they're no longer any fun any more than we throw away our spouses because they're no longer any fun. Ever consider that WE are also not as much fun as we used to be, hmm? (Of course, some people do in fact throw out their spouses who are no longer enjoyable, but we tend to hold such people in rather low esteem.)

We celebrate chagim because we are commanded to. Those who want to go all out and work their fingers to the bone, bless their little hearts, are free to do so. Those who prefer more modest forms of celebration are equally free to do things their way. But you should know that the highest priority in Yahadus is not having fun; it is, first and foremost, obeying the Word of G-d, and after that, passing it along to the next generation.

Last edited by zaq on Fri, Oct 02 2015, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

zaq

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 12:05 pm

freedomseek wrote:

I had times when I expected too much on yom tov, as if it had to be some majorly holy experience ......

Ah. The fallacy of expecting inspiration on demand. It may even work that way for some people. Most of us are, I think, not on that madrega. That's why we have, for example, the whole month of Elul before we get to RH and Aseret Yemei Teshuvah till we get to YK. Because it's impossible to go from zero to sixty in half a second. If you're not thinking about the holiness before the chag and are enmeshed solely in menu planning, shopping, and figuring out if you have enough paper goods for sixteen guests times four meals, how can you expect to feel anything but exhaustion when YT rolls around?

An effort at mindfulness might help. Some people have a tradition of announcing "Lich'vod Shabbat" when they buy something they plan to serve on Shabbat. This is lovely. It injects a bit of Shabbat spirit into the mundane task of shopping. In the same way, why not try thinking about the meaning of the chag as you cook or put up decorations or iron your YT clothes? Imagine that your cooking is an echo of the korbanot of the chag, for example. That your fruits and veggies are symbolic of the ancient bikkurim or the final harvest, depending on which chag it happens to be. Decide that you're doing laundry not simply because the hamper is overflowing and you need clean clothes, but that this is part of your celebration, preparing to adorn yourself in clean garb in honor of the chag.

Rejoicing is more in your mind than in your hands and feet. If the mind is on board, everything else will follow.

Laiya

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 12:14 pm

zaq wrote:

Oops, guess I wasn't clear. When I wrote, "if it's not enjoyable, what's the point?" the "it" I was referring to was the over-blown, expensive 8 course meals.

If all that cooking enhances your simchas y"t, then great, but if it's just stressful, skip it.

EnnuiGalore

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 1:30 pm

...so I just try to enjoy the time off. For me, I can't internalize
anything religious about it because I think everything the Torah says
has been distorted by people and rabbis who are just as flawed as we
are. Religiously it doesn't feel relevant at all. I feel like secular
people who are spending their Saturdays and chagim doing social
service are serving Hashem more than I am spending all this money on
extra food.

tichellady

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 2:17 pm

I can't help you with the meaningfulness aspect but seriously don't make it gluttonous. That's not even hard. Here's what I serve for meals to get an idea: melon, salmon, salad, potatoes, sorbet. Another meal will be minestrone soup and penne a la vodka. A meat meal with guests is mushroom soup, couscous, lamb stew, apricot chutney, green beans, salad, and meringues with berries and whipped cream. Another meat meal is vegetable soup, roast beef, sweet potatoes, asparagus, and blueberry Crisp. These are fancy meals but not gluttonous imo.
What makes anything meaningful for you?

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 2:28 pm

zaq wrote:

You're absolutely right.
And yet there is a mitzvah of v'samachta b'chagecha. What that means is a good question. It's not just the fun and the pleasure from good food or new clothes: those are just catalysts - props if you will - for real, lasting connection.

And about pleasure: getting pleasure from this world is not a bad things. There's a mashal of someone who gives a gift. If the recipient mumbles thanks you and doesn't even use it, the giver's not going to feel so good. OTOH, if the recipient is grateful, treasures and uses the gift. and periodically lets the giver know how enduring the pleasure is, the giver will feel great. (And may be moved to continue giving.)
Hashem gave us a magnificent world. If we take honest, true and good pleasure in it in honest, true and good ways, this is a good thing.

And the next generation will be more likely to perpetuate things if it's passed on in a way that telegraphs what a Toras chaim is, and how sweet it is. You don't need a lot of props for this.

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 2:40 pm

EnnuiGalore wrote:

I go to a few shiurim a week (can't believe I'm at this point!) and sometimes I have to push myself to go because I know they're good for me (and I really enjoy them once they're underway). But I can't listen to just anything. I found a few people I can listen to, in small doses. I can't do an hour at a time and appreciate how it won't float your boat.

You know, I think that secular people who are doing good things are doing good things. But are you sure they're not spending money the rest of the time, maybe in ways that you don't at all? Who knows? Personally, I'm not about to start dissecting people's lives though.

It sounds like social service really resonates with you. What opportunities are there in your community? There is a lot of chesed, institutionalized and informal in most communities. Maybe your Federation has some programs you can participate in.
Do you have a Friendship Circle?
Any mosdos your kids may not be old enough for but that you would you like to support in some way? They may need volunteers too.

Note all the things I suggested, like the secular volunteering, don't involve your spending money. You can volunteer, have your Shabbos cake and eat it too. Or not. Your call.

And working backwards, about people distorting Torah - you know the chazal about how at the end of times it'll be like there's a rope around the world, and it will be shaken mightily and it will be our great task to hold on anyway? That so many people make it so easy for us to grow cynical is the rope in action. (Rabbi Frand has a shiur/essay on leitzanus that discusses this too.) It's not easy and I respect your struggle.

Good Shabbos!

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Oct 02 2015, 2:42 pm

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