Is this a bad time?

amother

Black

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 1:05 am

We've been talking about making Aliyah for a while.
When I first raised the idea years ago DH was like "isn't it dangerous?" and I was like "not any more than another place, G-d can get you anywhere and in Israel He watches over you." Especially after 9-11 and numerous other attacks and disasters, natural and otherwise, and with rising anti-semitism everywhere, I don't feel any safer anywhere else than I would in Israel. This is how I've always felt. I'm more afraid of Hebrew and bureaucracy than terrorists. More recently DH on his own warmed up to the Israel idea and was even more into it than I was, and then I caught up and we're on the same page again definitely wanting to do it.

We almost did it this past year but for a few reasons ended up deciding to delay Aliyah and reconsider in the coming year, maybe aiming for summer for a less jarring school transition for the kids but depending how other things work out - like if we would be lucky enough to find a job offer before we actually get there - maybe sooner. We haven't actually started the gears rolling yet but it's on the agenda for starting to work on over the next few months, looking into communities and schools...

But now I'm getting cold feet. The last few weeks (months?) there seems to have been a huge increase in terror attacks and fatalities. They're happening in many different areas. Today alone the news has three separate incidents of people being shot inside their sukkahs. Just sitting there practically in their own homes and being picked off by arab snipers. And that's in addition to the car shooting a few days ago, yesterday's stabbing, zillions of rock throwing incidents and who can even count what else.

Is it sane to bring a family into that? Adding to this we have a couple of family members (one parent and one child) with anxious tendencies, we feel that both would be able to handle and ultimately be better off from the move, but that's about moving itself not about moving into a terrorist hotbed. I keep looking at the pictures of the Henkins HY"D and thinking "That's us. They are you and me. Who's next?"

I hate the idea of putting off our future yet again, especially now that we've pretty much decided that's the right place to be and the sooner the better (younger kids = easier adjustment for them, we hope. Also, certain things aren't working out where we are right now so we don't want to stick around too much longer, but also not so interested in moving somewhere else in between if we know we want to settle in Israel.)

But I am also feeling so haunted by the terror lately. It's freaky how alone Israel is in the world. And so close to so much craziness, besides the terrorists who live there already. I guess if the whole world is going crazy I'd rather be in Israel, but having not made the move yet, in some ways staying still seems like the safer thing to do. If we'd moved last year then for sure we'd still be there 100%, but because we didn't I think there's an argument to be made along the lines of "if in doubt, stay with the status quo until things get clearer."

I keep asking myself, if we make aliyah and then G-d forbid one of us is seriously hurt or killed in an attack, would I feel like we made the wrong decision or would I accept this as G-d's plan? And the answer is I have no darned idea. I just want us to be whole and well, and I realize that nothing I do anywhere can guarantee that, but instead of adding to my emunah that just makes me feel more helpless and clueless to figure out what's the right thing to do.

Just venting, I guess. And wondering how and when this nightmare will end.

ProudMommie

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 1:59 am

I really feel for you and have absolutely no advice... I just wanted to let you know that many people feel that way. We made aliyah almost 2 years ago, and it is not easy for sure. However, we are home and no matter what happens ... we are here. It is a decision each Jew can only make in their heart. It is being a Jew on another level altogether imho.

The whole world is shaking and in Israel of course it is shaking too. In Yerushalaim where we are it is very intense always and now even more so. Yes, we are also davening for this nightmare to end with the coming of Mashiach. I know that this does not clarify anything but your feelings are normal...

No one can help us but Hshem.

ora_43

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 2:02 am

Israel's scarier because here you know that there's a lot of hatred, it's just that it's contained somewhat. IOW it's terrifying knowing people want to murder you and your family, even if you know their chances of succeeding at it are minuscule.

But statistically, the odds of being murdered are actually still higher in America, IIRC.

And it always looks worse on the news. The news we get here about America isn't great either. I'm scared by all the latest attacks too, but OTOH, I can counter it with the experience of living for the past several years in a city with a large Arab population, and only encountering anti-Jewish hate once or twice, from children.

Have you spent a lot of time in Israel?

amother

Black

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 2:16 am

I spent two years of seminary in Israel (based in Jerusalem, got around a bit too) and visited a bunch of times besides that because I have close relatives there. Maybe a couple of times I was there were more hostile than average but I don't ever remember anything like this. Last year there were some scary times leading up to the kidnapping and war (I wasn't in Israel at all during that period. But all the car attacks made me feel somewhat similar to the way I feel now.) but things seemed to settle down pretty quickly (I'm sure it wasn't quick to people living in the hard hit areas!) and we hadn't really gotten up to seriously planning for aliyah until after that anyway (life stages, you know...) Now there are terror attacks multiple times a day, Iran is right next door being handed nukes and saying that they are going to wipe out Israel (true people have been saying that for ages... but they look really serious...), Syria is imploding just to the north, I dunno, maybe I just have an anxiety problem but it sure LOOKS scarier than usual. My news feeds aren't usually full of terror victims every other DAY.

Yeah America isn't looking great either, I agree, I'm actually embarrassed to be here at all except that it happens to be where I was before, I didn't have to choose it, and now that I do it doesn't look like there are any good alternatives. The whole world is gone mad.

etky

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 3:08 am

imochka wrote:

I agree with everything Imochka's wrote, especially the bolded.
You are the only one who can make the correct decision for you and your family and it is a very tough decision to make.
I think your feelings are very normal even though you should know that the situation now in Israel is really much worse in certain areas of Jerusalem and throughout Judea and Samaria than it is in other areas that you might consider as target destinations.
OTOH that could also change.
My gut feeling is that the entire world is on the brink of something bad (OK so maybe yesterday's haftorah has something to do with that feeling....) and I'm glad I'm here even though I don't really feel safe here. That probably doesn't make sense but that's how I feel.

mandksima

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 3:58 am

We came during the war 9 years ago. It wasn't really harder than another time would have been. Israeli children are not shielded as much IMO and they understand what is going on here. They talk about it in the ganim. There is a maturity and unity with the Jewish people in that to be proud of in your children so it is best to raise them here as soon as possible.

Fear of the future is good when it leads to introspection of your life and deeds. Love of being here, in Hashem's gift to us, and with our "extended family" is PRICELESS. What are you giving to your family by staying? Certainly not safety. Hashem doesn't promise safety there or here. What is already in Europe is coming to America as well.

The world is changing now according to plan. We must assume we are all unworthy of Hashem's mercy and daven for life and all of the best circumstances while at the same time, believe that we are doing the right thing by trusting His word that he will bring all the Jews from all four corners of the world and we are fulfilling more mitzvot by living here. We must believe that Hashem wants us to have the emunah to live here and to build up a love for the whole Jewish people by being surrounded by them. I have to say, personally, my love for the Jews as a whole only came after living here and seeing how we all come together as a people in crisis. My neshama cries out from overwhelming love for everyone here and everyone who still needs to get here. Hashem gives out only good and I do believe crisis is good as well. The whole picture that Hashem sees perfectly but we get only glimpses of can show how we come together and daven for each other and beg for Moshiach. Tragedy is awful, no one can say otherwise, but it is easy to see the aftermath of it. Living an easy life would not bring that and that is what is needed now in order to bring Moshiach. Embrace it - don't fear it. We don't know if we will live through these final stages but it is a great zechut to be here. If we are all going to go, at least get in that last zechut!

I believe even the most secular Israeli gets an unimaginable zechut by living here. Every soldier goes straight to gan eden after 120 for sacrificing for another Jew. Who knows what will tip over the scales in their favor? Every simple mitzvah is counted differently here.

We have 3 anxious people in our family and I can't say that makes it easier but they would be anxious wherever we would live. At least here, that anxiety can bring about some achdut. Let them worry about everyone here as a whole and daven harder. Please don't use that as a reason for not coming now.

5mom

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 5:20 am

amother wrote:

I'm not on any college campus. I'm talking about regular life for a regular family. I've never been shot at or had rocks thrown at my family while driving from my parents' home to mine (which means driving through a couple of different cities as well as deserted areas in between) which happens multiple times daily in Israel. Nobody was shot in their sukkah where I live, and I live in a very mixed area with plenty of easy-target balcony sukkahs.

I know there's no such thing as "safe" anywhere but where I am now, and in the US towns I would have considered moving to if Aliyah weren't on our agenda, you're not a constant terror target.

I understand what you are saying, but you have no way of knowing what a regular life for a regular family can become. The people who went to work or boarded planes on September 11 were just ordinary folks going about their business until they suddenly became targets of terror.

My great grandparents could never have imagined an independent Jewish state where Jews live as Jews, where the government sends out bituach leumi payments early before chagim, where newscasters begin their chol hamoed broadcasts with the words מועדים לשמחה. And where Jews defend themselves. We have an extraordinary gift from Hashem now.

The gift comes with difficulty. Sometimes, like this week, the burden seems too great to bear. But in the context of Jewish history, our sorrows are part of a larger, extraordinary process.

Sanguine

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 5:41 am

There are lots of places in Israel that you really never hear about in the news and the people there go about their lives (sharing in the country's hard losses but not feeling that they could be next). Most people in Israel fear turning on the news not going to the supermarket themselves.

Just practically, you're not coming on Aliya next week, probably next summer, right? So you can/should start to get things rolling now and things will definitely be different here by then (better or worse no one knows, but definitely different). By Pesach you'll ave a clearer picture and can make a stronger commitment either way. I came on aliya before NBN days but I agree that a successful aliya is a well planned one (unless you're very young and pre-children which you said you're not). Everything takes time to plan so why not "take the plunge" and get the ball rolling now? Looking into communities and jobs are the main thing. Getting in touch with people who are making/made aliya and asking lots of questions.

The "trick" is to live in a place that you feel safe in, and home feels safe to you which is why we can all go on with life (I know some women here will tell me that they don't feel safe these days, but there are ways to make yourself feel safer too). I live in the Shomron. We feel safe here. We take precautions. We have rock-proof, shatterproof windows on our cars here cause that's what personal protection in the Shomron requires. My children drive home at 2 AM (which I don't like, but this is home and they feel safe). When I visit friends in other Yishuvim I feel less safe driving there, but they feel safe there. There's a popular saying "Everyone knows their own Arabs". A few years ago we went to visit our parents in NY. I was so not-calm on the subway. I grew up in Brooklyn. By 8th grade (maybe even before) I was taking the train into Manhattan with friends - Went to HS by train everyday. Now I really can't believe that my mother actually rides on the NY subway regularly without feeling scared. Wherever you live you get comfortable in your own life.

Quote:

I'm more afraid of Hebrew and bureaucracy than terrorists

NBN takes care of a lot of the bureaucracy and most things aren't as bad as the stories (no one talks about things going well - there's no story there). Don't be afraid of Hebrew. Tackle it this year. By the time you move here next summer, all the terrorists will be gone (Pesach you'll decide for sure). Now is the right time (not bad time) for you to start working on your aliya. Call NBN, look for a community (in a safe place), check out job opportunities, find a Hebrew course (important to actually speak when learning) - It can be an adult education course.

Don't be afraid to start planning now (you can back out in half a year). If you don't start now you'll miss your chance to come by next summer when we'll all be living peaceful lives here in EY. And you'll fall into the cycle of every year is the wrong year to start.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 12:12 pm

Wow I could have written your post almost word for word! It's actually nuts. I felt like I was reading about us! Can you make our decision too? Ok just kidding. We keep going back and forth and feel like we're going in circles. We were just talking last night and we think that after the holiday we will start the process. Some of our kids don't have passports and we want to take care of that too and hoping my husband will go in a few months. Also I feel like part of it is that when you're there things are different. Here it all seems so scary over there but when your there I feel it's different. Maybe it's just me thinking that. Either way, I want to start moving forward even though it's actually hard. Isn't part of moshiach coming that Israel will look dangerous but really is the safest? (Don't quote me on that though. Can't tenement wherein heard that.)

amother

Black

Sun, Oct 04 2015, 12:33 pm

I dunno, I can't imagine why living around the corner from someone who got shot/stabbed by terrorists is less scary than living across the ocean from someone who got shot/stabbed by terrorists. I imagine it's even more painful when it's your friend/neighbor/acquaintance it happens to rather than just someone you feel connected to by shared faith but have never met or talked to.

We haven't been going back and forth on wanting to make aliyah in general, we've been pretty much decided for a while but one of the things waiting to fall into place is financials. That's still not quite sorted out but we made progress so the discussion will look different now. We even already put in our application for aliyah when we almost made it last year, just have a few final details to get done on that and the next thing was working more on the job prospecting and community choices. The only thing holding me back at this point (of course there was plenty I was nervous about anyway but was going to go for it despite that) is the terror situation.