Whose minhagim are these?

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Oct 07 2015, 7:48 pm

Whose minhag is it that a person must not go to a cemetery as long as both parents are alive?

Hoping to figure out my family's "origins" based on very few customs that remained.

They also made a special sour borscht for pesach.

Before Yom Kippur my grandmother used to send lekach (honey cake) and white sponge cake to the kids and grandchildren.

By location I would think they must have been chassidish but the confusing thing is the family ate gebrochts (one rabbi suggested to me though that the fact they ate gebrochts doesn't signify much because in that time and place they didn't have much to eat anyway so gebrochts was just the way to survive pesach)

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Oct 07 2015, 10:04 pm

cbg wrote:

We are of Turkish origin, and we don't go to the cementary if both parents are alive.

We are 100 percent Russian and have this minhag.

Are you a "Sephardi Turkish" family, if there is such a thing?

sky

Wed, Oct 07 2015, 10:14 pm

I think rUssel.

They are from the Hungarian Checkoslovokian border. Chassidish leanings but don't know too many details as not too many older people with knowledge of the mesorah survived in the family.

My grandparents did many things similar. My grandmother made mile high sponge cakes before yom kippur to send to shul as a tikkun and for all grandchildren. Honey cake before rosh hashana. In terms of the cemetery I wouldn't be surprised if that was the original minhag, I think it used to be pretty common.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Oct 07 2015, 10:22 pm

Anybody knows if these are Chabad practices?

I have a nusach Ari siddur in the family from 3 generations ago, which would mean Chabad (right?).
Although there is of course a possibility that no other siddur was available.

LittleDucky

Thu, Oct 08 2015, 12:37 am

Minhagim are odd things... While they may point to a specific group or location back in the "old country", it might also point to where they moved to. Was there another choice? What schools/ Shuls were there? I know of families where Zaide (and going way back) were litvish but one boy went to a chassidish school and the boy's family (when he got married) took on some chassidish minhagim (so there was a mix). I know of another where the family were "misnagdim" (not Lithuanian so not " litvish" technically and the family's preference/behavior/minhagim was not chassidish at all) but had to go to a certain school as there were no choices in the community in USA. So a few chassidish tendencies creeped in. They lost those when they moved away. And later they found out they probably were chassidish way back. (They were told NOT to change any minhagim to chassidish).

Also, things like cakes could be family preference or another version of slicing the brisket due to pot size and not some special or kabbalistic minhag. Not everything may be a "true minhag" but might be a "family tradition".
Just some thoughts...
Good luck trying to figure it out! It can be quite fun and interesting what you figure out. Family history is fascinating....

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Oct 08 2015, 12:52 am

Little ducky, I would agree with you that it may be so in general but in my particular case these are the exact things that my grandparents were themselves doing "in the old country", as I myself am from that "old country", so there has not been any moving countries, changing schools or communities etc.
so that's exactly what my grandparents did having learnt it in their parents home - there were no frum communities to speak of where they could have picked it up later on in their lives.
With regards to the cake example, the particular cakes could have been a matter of preference (though lekach does have a meaning with regards to a new year) - but religiously sending them to family at a particular time every year is not a random thing.

amother

Maroon

Thu, Oct 08 2015, 1:53 am

I'm chabad and the only thing we do from all those minhagim is lekach before yom Kippur.

I never heard of the others.

My polish grandfather that did not grow up lubavitch needed his borscht on pesach. Don't know if it was sour borscht though .

And everyone I know goes to the cemetery. ..

Good luck figuring it out

Chayalle

Thu, Oct 08 2015, 2:22 pm

amother wrote:

My grandmother did this too, but never heard the cemetery thing. She made borscht but none of us liked it much, and Borscht is very general, a Pesach staple made by many Eastern Europeans. Gebroks, though - Chas V'sholom, that would be like Chometz for her.

My grandmother was of Czekoslokian/Hungarian Chassidish descent.

LittleDucky

Thu, Oct 08 2015, 6:49 pm

amother wrote:

Ahh. I get it now. I guess I can get jaded sometimes when I hear so many stories of "minhagim of generations" that end up being the brisket pot all over again. Good luck on your search!

imasoftov

Fri, Oct 09 2015, 4:03 am

What I find amusing about the brisket pot story is that non-Jews also tell the same story, but it's a ham that didn't fit. But of course they took the story from us and it happened someplace where beef was in short supply so they replaced the brisket with a ham, no way we took one of their stories and "kashered" it, why if that happened, we might have also taken some non-Jewish customs and turned them into minhagim!

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Oct 09 2015, 8:36 am

Imasoftov, I'm sorry I don't get the amusing part now in that in my case there's clearly nothing like what you are bringing up - I am somewhat uncomfortable with this attitude when it obviously matters to me to find out more about these family "customs", and do find insinuations about my grandmother doing meaningless things that supposedly mimic non-Jewish behavior insulting.

Frumdoc

Fri, Oct 09 2015, 8:54 am

My mom sends all of hers children and grandchildren lekach before RH, just because she likes to bake and it is a nice thing to do. I suppose in two generations it will become one of those mysterious minhagim and will be imbued with all sorts of spiritual significance.

cbsp

Fri, Oct 09 2015, 9:03 am

I think the point is that it's specifically lekach (honey cake) before RH - she's not sending the lekach before Chanukah even though she presumably still likes to bake in kislev...

OP, I think imasoftov was mocking the people who deny that some of their beloved minhagim might actually be of non Jewish origin and will insist the practice started with yidden (and if non Jews do something similar it must be they took it from us)... I don't think she's specifically referring to your post.