Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Working Women
Rant about my job- professional photographer
1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 5:45 am
I am a professional photographer. This is my parnassah. I feed my family through this money. I just feel the need to put some information out there about professional photography due to the misconceptions and constant bashing.

There are many types of photographers, and they are on many different levels. There are some that charge $50 a shoot and give all the images on a cd. For the most part those photographers are not the most skilled in the field and most of them do not edit their pictures. A lot of people are perfectly happy with this type of photography.

Then there are photographers that are very skilled. They spend hours and hours working. For example to give a break down of how many hours I work per shoot. First I spend hours on the phone or by email just discussing what my client wants. I give an unlimited amount of time to discuss ideas, questions concerns etc.. Usually that is about an hour or two. Then I prep specifically for each client I actually take out about 3 hours to plan poses, scout locations to create exactly what my client asked for. Then I prepare props, if I am missing something this client needs or wants I either buy it, build it, create it... This can take 1-5 hours. Then comes the shoot, I show up an hour early to make sure there are no problems at the location, or if its in my studio I spend an hour setting up making sure its perfect. Then I shoot for an unlimited amount of time, I shoot until I feel confident that I have amazing pictures of the client. Then I edit the pictures to perfection, this can take anywhere from 2-10 hours depending on how much work needs to be done. Then I make a slideshow and print proofs of all the edited images. Then I have an in person meeting at my studio. We watch the slideshow together, go through all my samples, and go through the proofs. There is an unlimited amount of time to this meeting, it usually takes 2-4 hours. And then it takes 2-4 to prep each file to its specific needs, for example a 5x7 print and 16x20 canvas need very different properties to look perfect. And then uploading to my lab and using their extremely difficult system takes about 2-3 hours.

I spend on average about 28 hours for each client. Besides for all the time I put in, I invested in very expensive equipment, props and backdrops in order to make each shoot perfect. And I constantly take courses to update my knowledge in order to perfect skills even more and to be up to date with all the current photography trends.

So at the end of the day when I read in facebook groups or hear in the park about how photographers hold pictures hostage I am blown away and hurt. Yes I charge a separate fee for each digital and yes its not the cheapest price, but if I gave it to for free I am losing any chance of having a parnassah since you won't be paying me anything more than my session fee which doesn't even cover the hours I put in. I would also be doing every client a disservice since you can't possibly have a perfect 5x7 print and 16x20 canvas from the same file.

I am not saying everyone has to afford my prices or even want to pay them (which I feel are pretty cheap compared to industry standards) If people are happy with photographers that just give pictures without putting in lots of work, go ahead and use them. Choose a photographer you want based on your needs.

But please do me a favor and stop bashing professional photographers, stop saying its highway robbery, stop saying I am holding your pictures hostage and stop saying its a rip off. Because I am barely making money, and I am certainly delivering pictures that are worth what I charge

If you read through the whole thing I thank you.
Back to top

ahuva06




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 5:49 am
The truth is that your rant is really applicable to many, many professions. People are quick to complain and often have no idea how much work and effort goes into the subject of their complaint because they have no experience in that area...

I am curious to see your work though! Sounds like it's amazing!
Back to top

Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 5:55 am
To be honest, money is tight here, so the few times we have hired a professional photographer, we have gone for cheap. I'd rather have somewhat professional pictures than nothing and I get that I won't get amazing pictures for what I pay.
I am very surprised to hear how many hours you put into one client. It just sounds like so, so many. Is that the norm in your industry? Maybe I have no clue because I've never hired anyone like you. But I wonder if your clients realize. You sound extremely dedicated and you should be paid accordingly. But if people don't know just how much work you put into their pictures, I can somewhat understand where they're coming from.
Back to top

amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:08 am
And I would rather my digital file should be less perfect for printing in all formats, but sell it to me please. Name your price.

If it's not in digital form, I am extremely limited with what I can do with it. I also feel like paying several hundred dollars for something so easily destroyed as several physical printouts is risky. Not all of the photos my parents took of me made it through several moves, floods, etc. I want those pictures backed up in three different places.
Back to top

morah




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:09 am
Like Becca said, I think all professionals get this in one way or another. As a teacher, I'm often on the receiving end of "teachers aren't really underpaid because they get so much time off". People ask my husband his professional advice and can't believe what he gets paid for what appears to be just a little thing, but in reality often comes out to many hours and possibly requiring follow up. Same thing with doctors, lawyers, and accountants I know, who always have people asking " can't you just take a little look" at that skin thing/contract/tax document and then get all huffy to be told to make an appointment and pay for it like everyone else. My stepfather is an architect with a major firm and gets asked all the time to "just look over my floor plan" because people don't realize that if they want useful feedback, it requires more than just a quick look. Thank you for sharing what you do. Maybe other people can add their experiences of what they really do that outsiders to the profession would never think of. It's a nice exercise in dlkz and a good reminder to us to think hard before asking a friend a professional favor or for when we encounter sticker shock upon receiving a quote for something.
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:23 am
I totally understand not affording my prices. I don't think everyone should afford me. Ever since I started this business my outlook at professionals is totally different. I actually hired a few of my friends for different things and paid there full prices. I appreciate everyone's hard work so much more now since I am now on the other end.

I'm not going to give details about myself for obvious reasons. But for all those curious I am affordable to middle class families. There are people that spend over $100 on a skirt for their child in Jewish stores and then tell me I'm a rip off.... So my point was just to open people's eyes a little bit.

And again you can buy all my digitals, its just not free or cheap and thats what bothers people. So I'm not saying I don't understand why you want it, but I named the reasons why I prefer to sell products.
Back to top

Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:36 am
amother wrote:
And I would rather my digital file should be less perfect for printing in all formats, but sell it to me please. Name your price.

If it's not in digital form, I am extremely limited with what I can do with it. I also feel like paying several hundred dollars for something so easily destroyed as several physical printouts is risky. Not all of the photos my parents took of me made it through several moves, floods, etc. I want those pictures backed up in three different places.


I hear your point and the op's. I think the important thing is to make sure all prices and policies are stated clearly up front, like that there is no confusion and most people will know what to expect. I say most because even if you make them sign it three times and have it notarized and have their lawyer check it over, some people will never get it.
Back to top

amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:43 am
amother wrote:
I totally understand not affording my prices. I don't think everyone should afford me. Ever since I started this business my outlook at professionals is totally different. I actually hired a few of my friends for different things and paid there full prices. I appreciate everyone's hard work so much more now since I am now on the other end.

I'm not going to give details about myself for obvious reasons. But for all those curious I am affordable to middle class families. There are people that spend over $100 on a skirt for their child in Jewish stores and then tell me I'm a rip off.... So my point was just to open people's eyes a little bit.

And again you can buy all my digitals, its just not free or cheap and thats what bothers people. So I'm not saying I don't understand why you want it, but I named the reasons why I prefer to sell products.


As long as you do sell the digital version, and you're clear about prices beforehand, you shouldn't let people's complaints bother you. In a free market they can choose which products or services to buy.

Photography is not just a service, it's an art. People pay for your talent, not only the hours you put in.
Back to top

amother
Red


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:47 am
amother wrote:
And I would rather my digital file should be less perfect for printing in all formats, but sell it to me please. Name your price.

If it's not in digital form, I am extremely limited with what I can do with it. I also feel like paying several hundred dollars for something so easily destroyed as several physical printouts is risky. Not all of the photos my parents took of me made it through several moves, floods, etc. I want those pictures backed up in three different places.


You may be keeping the digital files as backup for when stuff gets lost in a move or whatever, but there are a lot of people who take the CD and run to CVS to pay ten bucks to run off copies for the grandparents and all 37 aunts and uncles. So yes, the digital files have a price too, and it's going to be considerably more than the cost of burning the disc.
Back to top

asmileaday




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:50 am
amother wrote:
...
Ever since I started this business my outlook at professionals is totally different. I actually hired a few of my friends for different things and paid there full prices. I appreciate everyone's hard work so much more now since I am now on the other end.


Can totally relate to this. So true. I find that people who work appreciate other's services much more and gladly pay.

On another note - wow that does sound like a ton of hours per client! You should hang up a sign in your studio with the breakdown so people can appreciate your dedicated work.(I'm being half serious Very Happy )
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:51 am
I am very clear about prices beforehand. I didn't address the art part because that was a given and people tell me all the time that they wish they can afford me because they love my pictures. But people complain in general that they feel the price of pictures is not worth what is being charged.

You're right the complaints shouldn't bother me but they do. Which is why I ranted but now I feel better and can move on!
Back to top

amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:51 am
amother wrote:
You may be keeping the digital files as backup for when stuff gets lost in a move or whatever, but there are a lot of people who take the CD and run to CVS to pay ten bucks to run off copies for the grandparents and all 37 aunts and uncles. So yes, the digital files have a price too, and it's going to be considerably more than the cost of burning the disc.


As I said, name your price. I'm just tired of fighting with a photographer who I'm paying a semi-fortune for the ability to spend another semi-fortune to get the files. I had two experiences where they told me they would burn the files for x amount, then later told me they don't release the files for the above-mentioned reason. In the end I did get the CD, but just be up-front about your policies. And charge enough to make it worth it for you, even if the client does go and print her photos at CVS or wherever.
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 6:55 am
amother wrote:
As I said, name your price. I'm just tired of fighting with a photographer who I'm paying a semi-fortune for the ability to spend another semi-fortune to get the files. I had two experiences where they told me they would burn the files for x amount, then later told me they don't release the files for the above-mentioned reason. In the end I did get the CD, but just be up-front about your policies. And charge enough to make it worth it for you, even if the client does go and print her photos at CVS or wherever.


That amother is not me and what was done to you is wrong. I am very open and upfront about my pricing, and my prices are high enough that its worth it for me if you do choose that route. I don't have a super high sitting fee, so that clients can spend a lot on products.
Back to top

seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 8:53 am
You put a lot of effort and professionalism into your work and surely deserve every penny that you're charging. But if you're finding that customers in general (beyond just a few cranky ones) are having a bad attitude about your fee structure, you should consider different fee structures that might be more satisfying to clients while still netting the same profit for you. For example, if people seem unhappy about paying separately for each print in addition to the session fee, consider charging a higher session fee that includes a certain number of prints. It's the same bottom line but it feels different to your customer because they are reaching into their pocket fewer times while getting more product. You may want to experiment with different arrangements to see what goes over the best. Poll your friends and loyal clients to see what they would like, or offer a few options and see which one is chosen the most often (I.e. let customers choose between a higher fee that includes more or paying separately for each thing, and if a large percentage choose one way then make that your focus for future pricing packages.) A business consultant could probably help you figure out the best way to do this.
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 9:21 am
seeker wrote:
You put a lot of effort and professionalism into your work and surely deserve every penny that you're charging. But if you're finding that customers in general (beyond just a few cranky ones) are having a bad attitude about your fee structure, you should consider different fee structures that might be more satisfying to clients while still netting the same profit for you. For example, if people seem unhappy about paying separately for each print in addition to the session fee, consider charging a higher session fee that includes a certain number of prints. It's the same bottom line but it feels different to your customer because they are reaching into their pocket fewer times while getting more product. You may want to experiment with different arrangements to see what goes over the best. Poll your friends and loyal clients to see what they would like, or offer a few options and see which one is chosen the most often (I.e. let customers choose between a higher fee that includes more or paying separately for each thing, and if a large percentage choose one way then make that your focus for future pricing packages.) A business consultant could probably help you figure out the best way to do this.


Thanks those are great points, there are plenty of people paying my prices, I just restructured my pricing and everyone seems happy with it. I just get upset when every single day there are posts on facebook bashing the business. Even if they weren't specifically talking about me, it really bothered me.
Back to top

amother
Seafoam


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 9:35 am
I get you. You are trying to make a living after all and you seem to be very good at what you do.

I'm just wondering if you are targeting the wrong crowd. Since you are very professional and keep updating, you are charging a fair price. However the frum community with growing families, tuitions and many other expenses that a frum home has leaves very little to spend on professional photography. Most people just want to take advantage of a professionals camera for a good shot. They are not so particular with the details. Of course all the kids should be smiling .... Anything taken from a quality camera is far better than the photos we all take on our own.

Perhaps the upscale secular community would have more means to appreciate the service you offer?
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 9:47 am
amother wrote:
I get you. You are trying to make a living after all and you seem to be very good at what you do.

I'm just wondering if you are targeting the wrong crowd. Since you are very professional and keep updating, you are charging a fair price. However the frum community with growing families, tuitions and many other expenses that a frum home has leaves very little to spend on professional photography. Most people just want to take advantage of a professionals camera for a good shot. They are not so particular with the details. Of course all the kids should be smiling .... Anything taken from a quality camera is far better than the photos we all take on our own.

Perhaps the upscale secular community would have more means to appreciate the service you offer?


You are definitely right and I am working on targeting the secular world too, which isn't so easy But you would be surprised as too how many frum people are willing to pay for quality pictures. My goal is too target anyone that has the means to pay for what I sell.

And again even if most can't afford my prices or the prices of other professional photographers, really my only point was don't bash it. And I was just trying to explain how much work goes into it. I couldn't do it anonymously on facebook so I posted here instead.
Back to top

queenert




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 11:29 am
A word from the "bashing" side (don't worry, I never did bash): I like having my digital shots, even if it's just to show them off to friends and family or use as a screensaver.
I totally hear how photographers spend hours and need people to spend on product but I'd love if I could get the low-res versions just to enjoy all the pictures in the shoot. It's not enough of a benefit to pay the price of the CD but it's something I want from my shoots.
It also just feels annoying - what are you gaining from my pictures? I'd get so much more hana'a! (I know, I know...you just need to make $$$ etc.) Smile
Back to top

amother
Bronze


 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 11:34 am
queenert wrote:
A word from the "bashing" side (don't worry, I never did bash): I like having my digital shots, even if it's just to show them off to friends and family or use as a screensaver.
I totally hear how photographers spend hours and need people to spend on product but I'd love if I could get the low-res versions just to enjoy all the pictures in the shoot. It's not enough of a benefit to pay the price of the CD but it's something I want from my shoots.
It also just feels annoying - what are you gaining from my pictures? I'd get so much more hana'a! (I know, I know...you just need to make $$$ etc.) Smile


I do have low resolution watermarked pictures. Cds are going out of style and they are starting to get rid of cd drives on new devices, so I sell a usb or send the images online to be downloaded.
Back to top

tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 12 2015, 11:44 am
I absolutely agree with OP.

Sometimes I feeling like making a PSA: Professional photos of your children is a LUXURY. That is why it costs money.

You can choose to go to a cheaper photographer.

You can choose to go to Sears or Picture People (where you really can get lovely photos for cheap!)

But if you want your kids to be models in an exclusive and beautiful shoot twice a year, yes, it will cost. It is an extra and your kids' childhoods will be great without them, too.

Please stop harrassing hard-working people for better prices. You have other choices; they are tying to make parnasa.
Back to top
Page 1 of 3 1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Working Women

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Moving to LKWD - work remote or look for new job
by amother
5 Yesterday at 1:32 pm View last post
I lost my job!!!!!
by amother
5 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:31 am View last post
My plus-size shopping rant
by amother
78 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 12:25 pm View last post
Summer job
by amother
2 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 9:14 am View last post
Does professional wash and set really matter for condition?
by amother
3 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 4:45 am View last post