5 y/o dd out of control

amother

Magenta

Tue, Oct 13 2015, 11:07 pm

My 5 yr old has spd. She is a sensory seeker. Loves movement, jumping crashing, swinging etc. She has at least 4 melt downs a day, at home. She holds it all in at school. She has sleep issues. She also talks back to anything dh and I say to her. Even if we say, or ask something that is not a huge deal.

She was getting ot, and it was starting to help, but insurance would only cover 5 sessions. Her ot tried to teach me everything I should do at home. I've really tried to implement it all. I made her a sensory room, bought fidgets and try my best to do the activities the ot suggested. (I happen to teach special needs, and work with kids who have dps, so I'm farmilar with handling it).

Problem is, when I try to do the excersizes with her, she flat out refuses, because I suggested it. Even if I just say, why don't you go on the swing, or ball pit. I get a big fat "no".

The only possible solution I can think of, is more OT, but that's probably not going to happen.

Her ot also said to sign her up for gymnastics which should help. I did, and she's been in it for 4 weeks, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I just feel like I'm spending more time and money on her, which I dont have, and my other kids are missing out...

Also, I used to give her melatonin bc she could not fall asleep. I stopped before the summer and she's as able to fall asleep after an hr in bed. Thatwa s a huge improvment. Now it takes at least two hours, and she is a nightmare to wake up for a school. She cries over her spot at the breakfast table, and if I didn't give her the right amount of milk in her cereal. She throws a fit in the floor if someone looks at her or says something wrong to her.

Help! We can't function like this.

mummiedearest

Tue, Oct 13 2015, 11:19 pm

sleep suggestion: a weighted blanket. if you don't want to spring for one right now, put some bags of dried lentils/beans on top of her blanket, see if the extra weight helps calm her at night.

no other suggestions, we have the similar problems here. I try to encourage my kids to play some exercise games on our wii, the kids are more willing to do that. also, I found some yoga videos my kids like on youtube. consider trying them with dd. don't tell her to do the video, just set up space for both of you and start doing it yourself. she may join you. she may just want to watch it. I tell my kids that they have to do the yoga if they want to watch the video. they enjoy it. here's a link to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CosmicKidsYoga

try the yoga adventures.

seeker

Tue, Oct 13 2015, 11:52 pm

If the melatonin worked for you in the past, maybe go back to it. I'm usually not a fan but starting to suspect that maybe my DD has a legitimate deficiency in melatonin production because she usually takes forever to fall asleep no matter what we do, and the melatonin worked like magic. Just started it this week to recover from yomtov schedule effects (getting out to school that first day was impossible! We were all wrecks.) It worked right away and I have been reducing the dose every day - started with 10 drops (1 mg), now we're down to 4, she didn't fall asleep quite as quickly tonight but still very peaceful. I think if it turns out that 2-3 drops (that's .2 or .3 mg, practically nothing in my unprofessional opinion) is all she needs to keep this happening, maybe I'll just stick with it long term. The difference in my life is amazing. We'll see though, maybe just getting back on schedule will be good enough. But at least temporarily this is something you should try.

The improved sleep doesn't seem to have helped with sensory seeking and other things, though. At least not enough. The other day she was working herself up into a frenzy so I started diluting some essential oils and she really calmed down after that! You don't need any cooperation to do that.

We are in OT but I can't say I've seen a dramatic improvement, though I did see things get worse when we took a break over the summer so it must be doing something. For me it is covered by the school district, not health insurance. Maybe you can choose one most important OT activity and make a prize chart for it.

amother

Azure

Tue, Oct 13 2015, 11:54 pm

Talk to your pediatrician about being referred to a sleep clinic. Sounds like her sleeping issues might be causing all the problems. My DS could be described exactly like your DD. I took him to OT for years and though it helped it was not life-changing.
But B"h after dealing with his sleep issues I can say that was life changing...he is a completely different kid.
I wish more people would consider the idea that sleep issues can have such an effect on kids (and adults!). There are so many studies coming out about this and about how many cases of ADD are actually children with sleep issues.
Please look into it!

seeker

Tue, Oct 13 2015, 11:55 pm

amother wrote:

What kind of sleep issues did he have, how did the sleep clinic help?

amother

Magenta

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 10:28 am

I would like to continue the melatonin, but it gives her nightmares and she wakes up from it. Once she falls asleep with out it, which takes about 2 plus hours, she usually stays asleep with out having nightmares. She doesn't want to take it because she knows she will have a nightmare when she takes it.

This morning was a disaster. She would not get out of bed, and she screamed and cried the entire morning about EVERYTHING.

I'm seriously fed up with her and I have two younger kids who are suffering from her behavior.

I really didn't think that the OT was helping all that much, until it stopped and she got so much worse. I thought that yontif and the schedule really messed her up and once she got back to schedule she would be ok, but its not happening.

She starts play therapy next week for some social anxiety stuff, but Im really not even concerned about that anymore. I would rather her address her chutzpadik behavior. Also insurance is only giving her 5 sessions of that!

seeker- what essential oils do you use? Do you really think they help? Where do I get them...

Thanks

seeker

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

Oh dear. :Hug red

B"H no nightmares on the melatonin for us. How much are you using? Maybe a lower dose would help without that effect? I gave 4 drops last night and it worked - not as quickly as 6, 8, and 10 did but much much much much much faster than going to sleep without it. But it sounds like you need something else to get her to sleep. There are essential oils for that - I have a few suggestions but for specifics it's a matter of experimenting until you find what works for you, because while some are generally known to be calming sometimes you have a kid who responds differently. Like mine - the one that is supposed to be calming made her more wound up, but I kept trying and found something that is very calming for her. There is also something called Rescue Sleep that is a homeopathic remedy by Bach, I have heard mixed reviews on it but again could be good for the right person.

And don't discount play therapy, it will likely help with chutzpadik behavior as well. Please realize that at 5 years old most of what we like to call chutzpah is really not intentional. They are learning and developing still.

Is there any other way you could access OT services besides health insurance? Might there be an OT school in your area with people who need practice/internships/something?

amother

Blonde

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:01 pm

My daughter wasn't as severe, but she needed a lot of help regulating herself, balance, handling noise and more. We did the therapeutic listening program and have seen amazing results. I was a bit skeptical at first, but I was desperate so gave it a try. After a couple of months, she was a different child. Things aren't perfect now, (although who's perfect?) but much much better.
Are you able to find a therapist who can do this program with your child? I did it 2x month for about 6 months.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:08 pm

I've BTDT, too.

Melatonin was a real help for us, but it didn't solve everything. Our pediatrician had us experiment for find the absolute LOWEST effective dose, and stay at that level. Nightmares mean that you are giving too much. Sometimes the dose needed is almost homeopathically small.

If DD is saying NO to everything just because, then have her evaluated for Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD. Not all doctors know to look for it. The key to dealing with it is to get therapy as early as humanly possible. Once defiance becomes an ingrained pattern, it gets harder and harder to deal with as the years go by. Kids generally do not outgrow ODD.

seeker

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:24 pm

amother wrote:

While we're on the subject, I don't usually put this out on imamother because of the policy against self-promotion, but I am a provider for a very similar listening program that can be done online without needing appointments with a therapist. It's entirely possible that Therapeutic Listening is more effective overall, but the program I work with is extremely cost-effective and accessible, and there have been many positive results with it as well.

I find both the listening therapy and essential oils are best described as supplemental. I don't know of anyone who has had a miracle salvation using just that, but I have heard again and again that other strategies/therapies weren't working until they tried this and suddenly started seeing progress all over. So I generally recommend doing these together with other therapies, though often starting one first - for example, a couple of months of listening therapy to kind of get the brain ready, and then try again the OT exercises/reading tutor/sensory brushing/whatever it was you thought was going to help but wasn't as effective as it was supposed to be.

amother

Azure

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:28 pm

The more and more I'm reading what you're writing I really think it's a sleep issue that's causing almost everything. My DS is 8 and I still make sure he is in bed at 7:15 and he is always sleeping by 8 the latest. He wakes up between 6 and 6:30. so he is getting between 10 to 11 hrs of sleep a night. Anything less than that and he's crazy to deal with. We have to be so strict with his bedtime - no going out late, no staying up late for yom tov/shabbos meals - or we have to deal with the consequences the next day.

Someone asked what the sleep clinic did. First we met with a doctor and then he stayed overnight for a sleep test. B"h there were no health concerns. We then met with a doctor again and he helped us with sleeping and nighttime routines. My son was waking up 3-4 times every night with nightmares and night terrors. He told us to put him to sleep earlier (he was going in his bed at 8) and he taught us what to do/not do before bed and in the middle of the night. We also went to an ENT because he has enlarged tonsils - but he felt they weren't large enough to warrant taking them out without other health concerns.

A lot of kids though do have sleep issues that a parent may not even know about. Oxygen levels could be low, the child could be waking up and going back to sleep multiple times during the night without even realizing it, the kid could have breathing issues - and all of these are causing a disturbance in sleep.

When I tell people to take their children to sleep clinics for behavioral issues I always get the same answers... No, my kid sleeps fine...my kid doesn't snore/wake up/have nightmares...

Our alternative was to get our son medicated, which his school was strongly pushing us towards. They did not believe me for a second that his sleep could have such a big impact on him and were very upset that we were fighting them. B"h my son is now one of the top in his class. I don't want you to think he's perfect - he's not. But when he has a "bad day" it is ALWAYS, always after he did not have a good night's sleep.

And as I wrote before, my DS was in OT for years for SPD. I do still consider him sensory, but nothing bothers him as much as it used to if he sleeps well.

Here is a link to an article sighting many studies linking sleep issues with ADD.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/......html

FranticFrummie

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:35 pm

I just wanted to add, that whenever there are behavior issues that cannot be addressed with the obvious stuff, you need to get a FULL and comprehensive allergy test done. Not just the usual panel, but test for all sorts of obscure stuff too.

I know a boy who is allergic to the glue that is used to bind books. Go figure! shock

The parents got rid of all the books in the house and switched over their entire library to Kindle. With a few weeks of daily vacuuming and dusting, his behavior improved dramatically. To this day, they can't take him to the library or else he has meltdowns for days afterward.

seeker

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:40 pm

If you are in the NY area, do you have a specific sleep clinic to recommend?
I doubt sleep will solve ALL the issues, but definitely interested in covering all bases.
I found sleeping better due to the melatonin helped some things but not others. For example, nights and mornings are a whole lot more enjoyable (yes, I said enjoyable! I know!!! Very Happy

) and I imagine we'd have more crankiness and inattentiveness without the sleep, but I didn't see any change in hyperactive or sensory-seeking behavior.
One thing I can say, a mother who doesn't have to spend her entire night listening to a child pop in and out of bed does a much better job at everything needed to help these kids! I am still pretty sleep deprived myself because I am still spending my nights playing catch-up, but I hope to catch up enough soon and meanwhile even with the sleep deprivation I am more relaxed and have more me-time. Just being able to sit down with a drink at 10:00 at night without someone all of a sudden popping up and saying "what are you having? Can I have some? I can't sleep. I DID try! I read a book already. Four books. Can you come lay with me again? Why noOoOot? The music finished. I don't want anymore. I'm huuuuungry. Yes but I'm hungry again! I'm STARVING! *tantrum*" has greatly improved my mental health.

seeker

Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:41 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

OK how did they even think to test for that?! Obscure is one thing but that is off the charts.