Kids pushing stroller on shabbos?

chouli

Wed, Oct 28 2015, 3:28 pm

I have a halachic question and I wanted to ask around here first, before going to my Rav...
So, my dh has to get medical treatment in another city, and will probably have to stay there over shabbos. Since he will most likely don't feel very well, I wanted to come along with the kids to make him company and cheer him up. In this other city there is no eruv, and I have a Baby that cannot walk, yet. Is there any permissible way you have heard of, that one of my older kids (under the age of 9) could push the stroller?

Thanks so much

Iymnok

Wed, Oct 28 2015, 3:35 pm

Once they understand, they can't do melacha. They cannot do melacha for you. Ask about hiring a g-y to push the stroller, that is sometimes done in small communities. Not everyone accepts this though.

finallyamommy

Wed, Oct 28 2015, 3:56 pm

If you must carry without an eruv, there's a thing about walking only three steps at a time or else passing the baby between you and someone else every couple of steps... look it up or ask a rav.

itsme123

Wed, Oct 28 2015, 4:00 pm

chouli wrote:

Actually we were told that my son age 5 can push the strollers if he's doing it on his own will... We were told to either put a toy, game, nosh or treat into the stroller and he should know he's pushing for his treat... But ask again to b sure.

Good luck

animeme

Wed, Oct 28 2015, 5:17 pm

I'm wondering whether having the kids along will make for a restful shabbos for dh when he's not feeling well.

Assuming you'll be staying somewhere and bringing the kids by for part of the time, can you get a sitter where you're staying for the baby?

chouli

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 2:43 am

Thanks for your replies!
I have asked my Rav, and although he didn't permit it right away, he said that one can be lenient in a situation like this. Such a relief!

Ruchel

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 6:13 am

I just want to put out there that people even MO (!) etc do not carry or push without an eruv. This islife... of course when security of health c'v are at stake, well, even an adult can do it. People do NOT carry a few meters then pass. It is not how it happens "irl".

Raisin

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 6:47 am

I've also never heard of this. I know people who seem to think eruv is a chumra and just use a stroller as normal, but they don't get their kids to push it.

I have heard it is ok to carry a toddler who can walk a few steps already, since they are not considered an object, so I know people who get around like that - baby walks, and gets picked up if too tired. (I've been told I can do that in a time of need, but that occasion has yet to happen. In a true medical emergency I would take a taxi.)

Iymnok

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 6:57 am

Ruchel wrote:

That is most likely people from areas with an eruv. They most likely don't know much at all about hilchos eiruvin.
In communities without or. With an unreliable one, the halachos are more known and adhered to.

Raisin

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 10:04 am

amother wrote:

My family is Bobov. Even before there was an eirev in Boro Park, we were allowed to carry until age 9.

Really? Is that common among bobov and other chassidim or is it just something your family was lenient on. I've only heard of this being ok with a very small child.

Were you allowed to do other malochos like turn on lights?

amother

Natural

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 10:13 am

Raisin wrote:

All Bobovers in Boro Park permit carrying until age 9. No other melachos
Never understood the reasoning though.

sky

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 10:38 am

I've let a child carry something that was purely for their own personal gain, but probably only until age 3 or 4 (like a pacifier, lollipop or bottle\sippy cup). My 4 year old definitely knows not to carry and my 5 year old checks her pockets on her own. I can't imagine asking her to push a stroller when she knows she can't.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Nov 02 2015, 10:15 pm

amother wrote:

All Bobovers in Boro Park permit carrying until age 9. No other melachos
Never understood the reasoning though.

Exactly what amother replied. I believe its all bobovers (I dont know about other chassidus) and its only for carrying. I did it as a child.

chouli

Tue, Nov 03 2015, 5:16 am

Well, I talked to another Rav, and he also said that one could be lenient here. He didn't permit small kids to push a stroller in general, just in this special case...
The kid would have to want to push it himself, because otherwise he could't come to the hospital. Of course its better to find another solution, but when there is none, this is permissible...

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 03 2015, 12:31 pm

My then rav, MO, said no pacifier for kid and if kid will not get it then stay home.
I will ask my Bobover grandfather.

Miri7

Tue, Nov 03 2015, 1:42 pm

I would do as suggested above and see if you can bring someone with you (sister, friend, cousin) to play with the kids or the baby while you and the older children visit DH in the hospital. That would also allow you to make a few visits to DH to check in on him while the kids are playing at the hotel. Sounds so much less schlepdik than going over with all the kids, and DH will get more rest if you aren't all there for an extended period.

Scrabble123

Mon, Dec 07 2015, 12:30 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Where I live, for some reason, kids under 6 or 7 still carry (eiruv or not).

They are carrying for themselves (I.e. a snack or toy) and are below the age of chinuch which is considered acceptable even where there is no eiruv.

As for Bobov "carrying" it is because their community acknowledges that there is a eiruv in BP, but still do not carry. They therefore allow children to carry for themselves or even to push a carriage up until age 9 because they accept that there is an actual eiruv there.