A horrifying case of child abuse..."natural" parenting

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harriet

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 10:43 am

amother wrote:

I did not read all the replies.
I do want to say that my child had Whooping cough, a severe case of it and there was NO medical treatment for it. Today they would advise using the nebulizer to ease the cough.
He WAS immunized.
If I would read such an article regarding a mother dealing with her child's cancer ONLY through natural and homeopathic methods I would agree she is abusive/negligent/insane.
But in the case of whooping cough, there is not much medically that can be done.

How long ago was this? I don't know that there is "not much medically that can be done."

My friend's daughter was diagnosed with whooping cough two weeks ago and they put her, as well as the entire family on antibiotics. Everyone (the girl that had it and the rest of the family that didn't but were treated prophylactically) had been immunized. Hers went away fairly quickly with the antibiotics and no one else caught it.

amother

Babypink

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 11:19 am

harriet wrote:

Well of course... those who are immunised and get it often get a much milder case. There is no treatment and the antibiotics do not lessen the illness!! It only makes it not contagious.

Miri1

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 11:45 am

Even if the antibiotics would have no effect on the child, due to the late stage of illness, oxygen would certainly have helped! I imagine that this is what would be done for a baby in the ER r"l.

Volunteer

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 11:56 am

seeker wrote:

It wasn't "hooray for me, nobody is dead" it was "hooray for me, I trained my children's immune systems to be better in some way that has yet to be quantified or demonstrated." I don't see how it's worth "strengthening" their immune systems if, by her own admission, it damaged their lungs and bronchioli or whatever in the process (she said it took months for them to heal. How can she know there is no lasting damage or scarring or anything from this? Can we ever know whether her baby's brain was affected by the limited supply of oxygen during her frequent coughing spasms?)

I loved this sanctimonious line, when she says how she didn't get more than 2 hours of sleep at a time for over 6 weeks due to tending to the kids' coughs/vomit: "Sleep? That's for parents who drug their children or lock them up." (paraphrased. Read it at least a day ago.) Or, for parents whose children don't happen to be sick right now.

Good point

Volunteer

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 12:14 pm

sneakermom wrote:

This is a great summary. But to me it misses the point. This lady is making it seem that her intentions were to treat her kids the best way she thought through alternative methods.

In reality her intentions were to abuse her kids. She dresses it in alternative medicine so that she can even brag about it to the public.

So it's not arrogance or any blind spot that caused this. What caused it is some sort of personality disorder or other mental illness that compels her to abuse and then gets pleasure publicizing it.

I personally wouldn't take any lesson from it at all. Except to learn how to spot abuse and not be fooled when it stares you in the face.

Or to try to work on prevention. How do we prevent these mental illnesses from developing? It is so destructive! I wonder how her kids will do fifteen twenty years down the line.

I'm reluctant to assume something that bad about someone I don't know. But you could very well be right.

sneakermom

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 12:21 pm

Volunteer wrote:

I'm reluctant to assume something that bad about someone I don't know. But you could very well be right.

It is normal to be reluctant to make assumptions of evil intentions. It's this very reluctance that the abuser uses to get away with what they are doing.

There are places none of us want to go. The abuser forces us to make a choice. To see it or look away because it's too horrifying.

FineOrthodox

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 12:23 pm

amother wrote:

Well of course... those who are immunised and get it often get a much milder case. There is no treatment and the antibiotics do not lessen the illness!! It only makes it not contagious.

No it doesn't make it 'not contagious'.
No medical doctor will day that.

amother

Blonde

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 3:10 pm

FineOrthodox wrote:

No it doesn't make it 'not contagious'.
No medical doctor will day that.

It actually does. After 5 days on zithromax, a child is no longer considered contagious. The cough will persist, however, and that can be for a while.

And this is coming from pediatricians.

amother

Babypink

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 3:24 pm

FineOrthodox wrote:

No it doesn't make it 'not contagious'.
No medical doctor will day that.

Ok not a medical doctor but the cdc...
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/a......html

amother

Peach

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 3:52 pm

As a respiratory therapist - I feel I would like to respond. (That is also why I am anonymous - because there are very few frum RT's so I dont want to out myself).

She did not cure her kids - she did not heal them....likely the bacteria ran its course. So basically - her kids suffered....and I can tell you, they suffered terribly. Its a horrible disease to watch a child go through...coughing to the point where you cant breathe - to the point that you vomit. How scary is that?

Additionally, while her children may have survived - how do we know, by extension, another child or infant or older adult didnt catch it from her kids and subsequently passed away. That is on her conscious.

Whooping cough is no joke - you dont mess around with it. Unfortunately the vaccine is one of the weakest so we really need everyone to vaccinate to make it work.

NEVER introduce oils etc. diffused into your childrens respiratory tract. They are so sensitive - It takes very little swelling to put a child into respiratory distress. Thats why they dont recommend Vicks for kids now. Just because its "natural" - does not make it "natural" for your airways.

I am disgusted that a mother would be proud that she made her kids suffer. And it saddens me that we are at a point where kids are once again getting an infection that was nearly eradicated.

Jeanette

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 3:54 pm

Antibiotics given in the early stages can lessen the duration and severity of the illness. Once the whooping has developed, though, antibiotics, steroids and bronchodilators have little effect. That's why prevention is important. If one child in the family has it, the rest must be treated with abx so they either don't contract it or get a milder case. Unless you're okey-dokey with ALL your children coughing until they barf and turn blue, which this mother apparently was.

bluebird

Fri, Nov 06 2015, 6:50 pm

Not only did she give her kids useless "remedies" that could have bad effects, she was giving her kids frequent enemas. Imagine being a child so sick that you're not able breathe, puking, and being given ENEMAS frequently. I can't imagine how awful those kids must have felt.

And thinking that enemas clean out the lungs... I can't even.

WastingTime

Sat, Nov 07 2015, 3:01 pm

Hey, she had a good point. If I already am of the evil parents and medicate my sick kids why should I lose my sleep too? Im no superhero like her...I will just lock the door(mine? Theirs?---both!?)
What an evil self-righteous MORON

Last edited by WastingTime on Sat, Nov 07 2015, 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Forestgreen

Sat, Nov 07 2015, 3:09 pm

Jeanette wrote:

As soon as my child #1 started coughing, I saw that this cough was different. We went to Dr who pushed us off unless she started throwing up. When she coughed until she threw up the next day, we went back and she was given the antibiotics. They definitely helped her- this was very early in the course of the illness. I went back to the Dr each time my other kids started coughing and he gave the antibiotics. In our case I think they really did help, even in the case where child #2 developed Strep on top of whooping cough.

Scrabble123

Sun, Nov 08 2015, 12:14 am

amother wrote:

Well of course... those who are immunised and get it often get a much milder case. There is no treatment and the antibiotics do not lessen the illness!! It only makes it not contagious.

cdc wrote:

Pertussis is generally treated with antibiotics and early treatment is very important. Treatment may make your infection less serious if it is started early, before coughing fits begin. Treatment can also help prevent spreading the disease to close contacts (people who have spent a lot of time around the infected person). Treatment after three weeks of illness is unlikely to help because the bacteria are gone from your body, even though you usually will still have symptoms. This is because the bacteria have already done damage to your body.

Usually after 21 days, the illness is no longer contagious and antibiotics are not required (but may be given on a case by case basis). The individual will at that point already have incurred damage physically caused by the bacteria.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:55 am

I was in the picu once with an infant of a friend who had whooping cough. It was the second time said child had it. I asked the dr abt it and he said that since the child had it already he is MORE LIKELY to have it again since it weakened his respiratory system

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Nov 08 2015, 2:12 pm

Usually having gotten sick from the bacteria, provides protection from it for 30 years or so, BUT what CAN happen is that the same symptoms occur (without the bacteria and subsequent toxin) when getting another respiratory illness, but only for the duration of that sickness...meaning a cold could lead to a whooping cough while the cold lasts, but not the typical 3 month duration of the cough like it would when initially getting sick with pertussis.
That being said, this usually happens in the immediate months after pertussis, not a life long thing.

amother

Tan

Mon, Nov 09 2015, 8:13 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15876927

A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years

http://journals.lww.com/pidj/f......aspx

(it does seem to indicate what HY is saying, the second infection is milder)

Adults in the prevaccine era rarely presented with typical forms of pertussis.13 One study indicated that only 0.26% of a population of 20,405 persons had a second case of pertussis disease.10 It was therefore postulated that immunity from natural infection was close to lifelong.11,14 A more recent prospective study of household contacts in a largely unvaccinated population demonstrated that 33% of adult pertussis cases had a history of pertussis during childhood.11 Computer simulations of the prevaccine era by mathematical modeling estimate that, in 1940, everyone experienced pertussis as a child, 9% of the population had more than 1 typical pertussis episode, and the average adult experienced 2.6 cases of mild pertussis in his/her lifetime.15 The frequent occurrence of mildly symptomatic B. pertussis infections in adults refutes the previously held belief that infection-acquired immunity is lifelong.

Symptomatic reinfections with B. pertussis in children have only recently been reported, both in the Netherlands and in Senegal. A prospective cohort study in the Netherlands documented B. pertussis infection clinically and by laboratory techniques in both the first and reinfection episode in 4 children.7 The second episodes of pertussis were milder than first infections and may not have been diagnosed outside of a research setting. This study provided well-documented evidence that the duration of infection-acquired immunity in children may be as short as 3.5 years. A study in Senegal of 8419 children documented 2 episodes of confirmed symptomatic pertussis in 137 unvaccinated children (0.02% of 6131 children) and 73 previously vaccinated children (0.03% of 2288 children).16 The mean time between the first and second infections was 7.1 years [95% confidence interval (95% CI), 6.6–7.6)] in the unvaccinated children and 5.1 years (95% CI 4.5–5.7) in the previously vaccinated children.

The current estimates of the duration of infection-acquired immunity range from 7–10 years12,16 to 20 years.11 These widely different results could be the result of differences in levels of circulating B. pertussis, surveillance systems and case definitions used.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Feb 23 2016, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

I hope these kids are ok. I wonder if anyone ever investigated the mother?

markmywords

Tue, Feb 23 2016, 10:03 pm

This mother sounds totally clueless.
This is a case of severe neglect.
She is lucky her kids survived.

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