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Question about teachings of Spinoza



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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 9:43 am
Are the teachings of Spinoza considered heretical today by all streams of Orthodoxy?

I recently familiarized myself with his views, especially his interpretation of God. I repeated them to my husband who is not familiar with his particular views but who has arrived to similar conclusions based on other philosophical ideas, and he claims that the early Hasidic masters, starting with the Besht, also approved this line of reasoning.

We were taught in our far right wing schools that he was a total apikorus. My question is if more modern orthodox groups also hold that, or not?

Thank you.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 9:50 am
My MO school taught that Spinoza was an apikores, and that some teachings of chassidus come close to Spinoza's pantheism, so we should be careful. Confused
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 10:20 am
You can believe whatever you want. You dont need anyone's approval.

Are you looking for a discussion? If so, then break out some Spinoza philosophy. First you have to teach me something, then I'll let you know what I think. Wink
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 10:39 am
chani8 wrote:
You can believe whatever you want. You dont need anyone's approval.

Are you looking for a discussion? If so, then break out some Spinoza philosophy. First you have to teach me something, then I'll let you know what I think. Wink

Im not looking for approval, just information as to what other streams of Orthodoxy consider him.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 10:40 am
amother wrote:
My MO school taught that Spinoza was an apikores, and that some teachings of chassidus come close to Spinoza's pantheism, so we should be careful. Confused

Interesting, although modern Chassidish culture doesn't have anything to do with the original teachings.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:19 am
amother wrote:
Interesting, although modern Chassidish culture doesn't have anything to do with the original teachings.


Huh? How can you make such a generalized statement. Please be more specific in your critique.

You may have so much in your head but you're not being very articulate on this thread.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:25 am
chani8 wrote:
Huh? How can you make such a generalized statement. Please be more specific in your critique.

You may have so much in your head but you're not being very articulate on this thread.

Again, I don't need a discussion on this. Just information as to what different kinds of Jews are taught about this particular philosopher.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:34 am
amother wrote:
Interesting, although modern Chassidish culture doesn't have anything to do with the original teachings.


As I recall, we were talking about the teachings of the early chasidim, not about current practices. Your dh is right in seeing common threads.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:36 am
amother wrote:
As I recall, we were talking about the teachings of the early chasidim, not about current practices. Your dh is right in seeing common threads.

You're right.
So if the Besht taught similar things, why is one considered an apikorus while the other is the inventive leader of a new kind of Judaism?
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sun, Nov 08 2015, 11:46 am
You want the serious historical answer?
A. The Gr"a started enough of a backlash that the early Chassidim had to prove themselves (and to their credit, they wanted to stay part of Orthodox Judaism so they did their best to prove themselves to be Orthodox).
B. Very soon after, the Reform movement started up, and was considered a much bigger threat to Orthodoxy. Chassidut was then considered small peanuts as threats go.

Spinoza was either ahead of his time or not committed enough to Orthodoxy.

(disclaimer- this is pieced together from what I remember from MO Jewish History classes over a decade ago and dates I just looked up on the Internet)
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