Hunting? | Imamother

5mom

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 2:20 am

As far as I know, there's no specific prohibition. Most wild animals are not kosher, so there's not much reason forva Jew to hunt. Cruelty to animals (tzaar baalei chaim) and waste (bal tashchit) are forbidden, so hunting would be out for those reasons.

Bear in mind that just because the Torah doesn't forbid something outright doesn't mean that we should not be sensitive to it. There are no explicit prohibitions against child abuse or cannibalism, but we are expected to know that these cannot be acceptable. (Yes, it's a slippery slope. Still. The Ramban went there by inventing the concept of naval bershut hatorah, so I have broad shoulders on which to stand.)

Edited to write Ramban, not Rambam. (Who knew that my spell checker has a favorite Rishon???)

Last edited by 5mom on Tue, Nov 10 2015, 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 2:37 am

What 5mom said.

There needs to be a practical reason for hunting. If a raccoon is wiping out your chicken coops, then by all means you can hunt, or even set traps.

There is a shaila about whether "catch and release" fishing is allowed, because you are not going to eat the fish, and you are causing it pain. Other sources say that "fish cannot feel pain", so it's not a problem. Sorry, I can't site the sources, this is just something I overheard in conversation.

As always, AYLOR.

Iymnok

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 2:45 am

Hunting for what?
Food? You have to use clever traps that won't make the animal a treifa or neveila.
Skins or furs? I don't know, but we don't have a problem with using them. How to catch them needs clarification.
Sport? I see a problem there. Tzar baalei chaim, lowering your sensitivity to pain and violence, getting used to blood and the mentality there.

chani8

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 3:02 am

That quote was from a thread (in a private forum?) about an ADHD kid who wants to go hunting. My teen talks like that, too, wishes he could go hunting. I always thought it was an issue of tzaar baali chayim.

imasinger

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 3:40 am

IDK, never have looked into the details of halacha. But I do read the local paper, and most of the time when they are permitting hunting, there is a local overpopulation of the species.

There are always activists who protest, and the wildlife management specialists point out that even in the less usual cases where a second shot is needed, it is a lot less painful death than winter starvation, and a lot fewer creatures suffer and die.

Sake

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 4:33 am

For what it's worth my DH hunts for our family food. He has taken boys with issues with him from time to time. He told me it's not the hunting itself that is the benefit, it's the need for peaceful quiet, managing your impulses, enjoying fresh air and God's creation, learing to conserve an respect the environment.

Also for some boys they just need the time with a good man.

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 11:36 am

Sake wrote:

Is this fishing?

The only wild hunting for a kosher animal I can think of would be for deer or moose/elk. How could you do that without injuring the animal/making it treif (in the actual, literal meaning of treif)?

MagentaYenta

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 11:44 am

bigsis144 wrote:

Head shot. I still fish, salmon, steelhead, trout. I no longer hunt. There are some Jews that grew up in a culture where subsistence hunting was the norm.

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 1:24 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Head shot. I still fish, salmon, steelhead, trout. I no longer hunt. There are some Jews that grew up in a culture where subsistence hunting was the norm.

So one bullet to the brain and then a shechita knife? Or no knife needed 'cuz the deer is already dead?

I've never heard of this before.

water_bear88

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 1:45 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Based on the 39 melachot, you need to trap the animal and then shecht it. (Trapping is one before shechting in the list.)

Obviously, pikuach nefesh is a different story. If you needed meat for health reasons, couldn't set kosher traps and couldn't get hold of kosher domestic animals, presumably you'd have to eat a treifah or neveila.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 1:53 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

So one bullet to the brain and then a shechita knife? Or no knife needed 'cuz the deer is already dead?

I've never heard of this before.

Any hunter, be they Jew or non Jew bleeds an animal immediately. As for gut shots, any hunter would be ashamed of a gut shot. The animal suffers and the meat is wasted.

Some of us grew up in NJ when it was still the Garden State. Deer were in abundance and many Jewish families in my town hunted. Mostly deer since birds are problematic.

Sake

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 4:01 pm

Deer, Turkey, Moose. He also fishes all summer. We have the "privilege"? Of living in a very remote area and his work brings him to even remoter areas lol. He is also trained as a shechita so he does cow, lamb, goat for the family too. We live near some menonite and Palestinian (xitian) families who use his services.

bigsis144

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 4:54 pm

I still don't understand. Is it halachically muttar to kill (with the intention of eating) an animal with any other method than severing the carotid artery with a shechitah knife? Source?

Not sure if cows/goats/sheep/deer are in a different category than chickens/geese/turkeys, but I don't think so. That's why poultry is fleishig but fish is not.

Volunteer

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 7:25 pm

How can you shoot a deer without making it treifa?

I suppose trapping would work but it's a whole lot easier with turkeys.

I've been fishing before, but I've never been interested in hunting. Dh used to hunt a little before he converted, but they always ate the meat. He stopped liking hunting after a while. But he said it was necessary in his area to control the population of game animals. Every ecosystem needs predators.

5mom

Tue, Nov 10 2015, 11:42 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Head shot. I still fish, salmon, steelhead, trout. I no longer hunt. There are some Jews that grew up in a culture where subsistence hunting was the norm.

Ask your local Orthodox rabbi about this. Fishing in all forms is ok, but I'm pretty sure that killing an animal in any way other than shechita makes it treif. You may need to replace and/or kasher some dishes.