So how big is your diamond!!!!

amother

cornflower

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 4:41 am

Someone had to open this thread.
Can I just vent here? What kind of message are we teaching our children that we put so much effort into choosing the best diamond for our new daughter in law? It goes further than that... The most beautiful flowers at the engagement party... The best shabbos dishes set... etc.

Why do people focus so much energy into materialistic items instead of focusing on the bride and groom and helping them to focus on one another? Yes I'm aware that chassidish dating means the chosson and kallah don't know each other and they need something else to focus on. But does it really have to be like this? Does it really have to be so stressful that a kallah needs bribing with one materialistic item after another? How about getting the bride to find out what her future husband loves and vice versa... learn to cook his favourite meals. Read up on topics which interest him. Find out his favourite colour and buy him a tie/scarf/socks in that colour. Let the bride buy him a perfume or cufflinks she thinks he will apreciate. Let the chosson buy her a bracelet he thinks she will love.

I just can't understand the pressures we put on ourselves to ensure we fit in with everyone else. I broke the mould in my family and community. I shocked everyone when my husband went out with his friend and chose a beautiful 500 dollar engagement ring to propose with. I refused real flowers at the wedding because I couldn't justify my parents spending so much money on something which will be used for a few hours. (Silk flowers turned out to be just as beautiful and we put candles all around the hall for that lovely glow). My husband refused my father's offer for a gold watch saying he wouldn't wear it anyway. And guess what? So many friends and family have told us they wished they could do it our way. They wished they didn't care about what everyone else thought. They wished they didnt rack up so much impossible dept so they would be judged well by others. But if so many of them secretly think that way why can't we all break this madness?

Lastly, (sorry for long rant) I was engaged at the same time as another girl in my office. My boss approached me a few weeks before my wedding and said, I'm so surprised at the difference between the both of you. Whenever you talk about your husband to be you are shining and excited. She on the other hand hasn't mentioned him once in all the pre wedding chatter. She is clearly excited about her expensive ring, her perfect dress, her 3 shaitels, her diamond watch and tennis bracelet. But she doesn't seem to realise it's all about her and her future husband.

Now before you bash me, I love pretty things too, but I just can't see how putting them before my husband helps with pre wedding jitters. Confused

amother

Gray

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 6:03 am

I apologize if I'm going off topic but your post immediately gave me this reaction.

My husband and I were (still are) going through some very difficult times, marriage problems, financial problems, I was completely falling apart emotionally... and I know this may be a strange way of thinking but it bothered me so much that my in laws wouldn't help us while spending money on stupid things for their kids who were getting married. I know it's totally unfair of me and the newlyweds have a right to nice things, but I feel like it's a kind of distorted thinking in our society. Wasting money on one night is more important than helping our children whose lives are falling apart and never mind their grandchildren who potentially could be traumatized from a mother who is at the brink. I'm not blaming my in laws (anymore) but it made me question the ridiculousness of what we as a society value.

vicki

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 6:11 am

amother wrote:

I hope things turn around for you quickly.
I agree that there is tremendous financial waste in our society.
But the difference I see is that your finances are your responsibility. The wedding for their child they see as their responsibility.

nyer1

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 10:11 am

I think you're blowing something out of proportion. someone started a thread about diamonds because I guess it was their first time buying one, and since it's a big investment, they wanted to get some info about it. why is that SO TERRIBLE? how can u sit here and say how TERRIBLE it is that we have materialistic needs? guess what? we're human! it's normal. no one, including you, is SO HOLY as to not have some materialistic desires ... I don't think we are teaching our children anything so terrible by buying nice jewelry for the kallahs, of course within one's own means. it is up to the parents of course to teach the children, and young married couples, that one should only buy something that they can actually afford. no one should be going into debt to buy a diamond. but please, don't sit here and act holier than thou. having a nice size/quality diamond is a beautiful reminder of my relationship with my husband and with his parents who bought me the diamond. it's not a bad thing. relax.

return2You

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 12:29 pm

Getting married is a once in a lifetime opportunity, the only time a kallah gets to really be doted on and spoiled without major pressures of life. Put yourself in the shoes of a twenty year old kallah and tell me if you can honestly say you would rather have a super simple no- frills wedding, and have the money put away for the future?
I had a friend who had that and she felt ashamed by her wedding, she couldn't measure up to society's standards, and she felt like she never really had the wedding of her dreams.
Besides, all the money spent on expensive jewelry and the like will still never cover the exorbitant amounts needed in complicated situations later on in life.

amother

Wheat

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 12:47 pm

return2You wrote:

Besides, all the money spent on expensive jewelry and the like will still never cover the exorbitant amounts needed in complicated situations later on in life.

I don't agree. If someone spends an extra 30K (for example) on real flowers, extra large band, extra shmorg, fancier food, expensive gowns, extravagant jewelry, etc, etc, etc. But doesn't have any money put away in savings I think that is a huge mistake.
30K can go a long way in saving for a down payment on a house, which is huge, and something that many couples struggle with later on.

My cousins and I all got a small inheritance, parents were all listed on the account so they really had control. My cousins's parents made nicer, prettier weddings, fancier jewelry, etc. However, later on they all struggled to buy homes, or are still living in small apartments with many children. My parents didn't touch that money and made a more toned down wedding: silk flowers, one man band, standard shmorg and food. Not scrimping , but nothing over the top. I had that money to use right away on the down payment on a house that has saved DH and I a lot of heart ache. 10 years later looking back I have no regrets and am enjoying the long term investment.

If as a society we are creating the atmosphere that over the top, extravagant is normal then that is a big problem. If a girl needs a large ring and 1000 gown and 3 3K sheitels to look beautiful and "in" then that is a problem.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 1:08 pm

return2You wrote:

Ok. I'll tell you.
I can honestly say I DID prefer to have a super simple no- frills wedding, and have the money put away for the future? I was 19. Wedding cost was $8K+/-, incl dress, flowers, food, musician, etc. We didnt have to pay for location (@ shul where FIL was Chazzan) Rabbi (friend of family) or pictures ( friend of family). Even if we had, that would have added 1-2 thousand more. 170 people wedding, btw.

A wedding is one day. the marriage is a lifetime

PinkFridge

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 1:38 pm

nyer1 wrote:

This is something OP feels very strongly about. One has to respect her for starting a spinoff and not hijacking the other thread.

amother

Gray

Fri, Nov 13 2015, 2:09 pm

By the way I DID want a nice wedding.
I was young and completely irresponsible financially and hey it was my parents' money. 10 years down the line I see how ridiculous it all is, and like j wrote how ill prepared so many are for marriage. Someone wrote in the other thread I think how this is almost a compensation for not really knowing their future spouse during the engagement so this is what makes it exciting! Such an interesting view and I think a lot of it rings true. I don't think people should skimp and make their children unhappy. I just think the way we think and what we value needs a complete overhaul. Myself included.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Nov 14 2015, 1:46 pm

To those who think I'm holier than thou:
I'm not! But your argument of young girls desperate for a wedding of their dreams is totally missing the point of marriage.
Back in the day, very young girls would get married in very simple affairs. They were mature enough to recognise the beauty of marriage and thus mature enough to elope.

If your daughter isn't mature enough to look forward to marrying her spouse more than the materialism that goes along with a wedding, she probably isn't mature enough to get married. That's my opinion. The divorce rate on extremely young people in our community is rediculously high. I'm sure many sorry marriages could be avoided. The heartache that goes along with such young innocent couples divorcing is unacceptable and terribly unfair. Perhaps if they weren't so misguided by all the frills the divorce rate would drop.

That's not to say that if you are very wealthy you can not have the weddings of your dreams. If you have so much spare cash, go ahead and spend it how you please. But it's important the new couple are more excited to be with one another than they are about the wedding.

amother

Orchid

Sat, Nov 14 2015, 2:53 pm

One of the things that struck me when I first heard this was a topic of conversation between young kallas was the lack of class and manners- I mean since when do we discuss "how big" or "how expensive". I love it when people are shocked at Israelis asking about prices of houses/clothes etc but then find it totally normal to compare diamonds.

And yes I agree with OP. I don't get how it's become the norm to be so materialistic in regards to our children's weddings. It's allowed to be and do whatever you want but it's a shame when it turns into the norm.