What does "full tuition mean"

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 15 2015, 5:51 pm

amother wrote:

On the other hand, my dh and I are some of the largest donors at our kids' school. And we would be 100% happy to hear that people pay such a high percentage of tuition and then put aside a small amount for debt that was run up about during financial hardship. Every family should have something put aside for retirement or they'll just become our tzedekah target on the future. I would be 100% disheartened to hear that people gave every last penny to the school, leaving nothing left for their family's future security.

BH I also donate large amounts to the schools. I wouldn't donate if the school were allowing parents to save money instead of paying tuition. Why should I give up my savings?

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Nov 15 2015, 5:56 pm

amother wrote:

Furthermore, don't simplify the situation, saying we all choose private school and its high costs. There's no affordable alternative (please do not mention homeschooling) yet we live in a culture that highly frowns upon public school and doing anything remotely alternative.

signed,
Someone who is happy when people don't live at the poverty level to give every last drop of income to the yeshivas

[quote] The Rabbis on the Vaad say it is a luxury. There is no right to a Jewish education.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Nov 15 2015, 6:12 pm

1. Based on your own guesses and not actual facts and figures, you have decided that full tuition is more than required and may go towards another student's tuition, but can't prove this.

2. You have the money to pay right now, but want to save it instead for the "future" instead of paying for your current financial obligations.

3. You were on a scholarship (ie funded by tzedaka/ people paying full tuition, according to your calculations) before, but don't feel any obligation to pay this back.

4. You admit that you paid full tuition when you wanted to max out your credit cards before declaring bankruptcy, ie you never had any intention of actually paying that money, it was paid by the bank and wiped out by your legal action.

5. No one should get to save for their future on someone else's dime or tzedaka monies.

None of these are the behaviors of an honest or upstanding member of any community, however much tzedaka you might be giving.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Nov 15 2015, 8:20 pm

amother wrote:

1. Its not debatable that full tuition exceeds the actual money a yeshiva needs to cover all their expenses. Do you dispute this?

2. I don't think its a good idea to grow old without a penny in saving and inevitably become a person that is reliant upon the charity/chessed of others.

3. As I said several times, My child was paid for by me- I just wasn't paying the full amount asked for by the yeshiva which would have resulted in me paying for others. Again, Nobody was paying for me.

4. Whats your point???

5. If people don't save any money they will inevitable need tzedakah when they get older. (see point 2) Also, I dispute that it was on somebody else's dime. (see point 3.)

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Nov 15 2015, 9:13 pm

amother wrote:

It is an educated guess based on the following : 25 boys in the class. If each contributed 9k that would total 225k. If the rebbe and English teachers make 100k together (im sure they make less ) each family would need to pay 4k to cover that. that leaves 125k to pay for principles, secretary, Maintenance, utilities, ect. These expenses are cumulative and are shared by all grades. If we total these expenses at 500k, if it's shared by a group of 200 that would mean 2500 per family and would put actual tuition cost at 6500. Even if my numbers are low it seems certain that it doesn't exceed 9k. I'm curious how you can add things up that it would come out more.

I don't know about in your school. But we average probably one secretary per grade. A principal per every 3 grades (I believe ours are paid large salaries because they are phenomonal and an integral part of the school running well), plus an overall dean. 2 English Principals (for upper and lower grades) multiple janitors, cleaning crew, building manager, There is at least one kriyah specialist per younger grade, sometimes two. Assistants in all younger classrooms. Extra curricular teachers. Librarian, plus cost of maintaining the library. Finance\billing department. Copier\printer maintenance, paper, ink. Outside building maintenance, cutting grass, maintaining the playground, snow removal, balls and equipment. Teacher healthcare and ongoing education. Operating Insurance. Electric, water, gas, bills, Paper towels, toilet paper, soap. The amount that it costs a school to go is amazing. I don't think the 4K each student pays the teacher even scratches the surface of what it costs the school to educate each child.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 1:52 am

amother wrote:

Someone else who doesn't know the meaning of honesty. Sad.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:32 am

I went to a very expensive secular private high school where the tuition was set to cover only about 2/3 of the cost for each student and the other 1/3 was covered by income from the school's endowment. Does that mean that only those who donated extra to cover the full cost of their child or more were playing "full tuition" and everyone else was "on scholarship"? The only people who had to apply for aid and disclose their income were those who could not pay the set tuition.

(I definitely wasn't paying full tuition under any interpretation, but I'm just curious if those parents who accept OP's tuition philosophy would apply it also when the "full tuition" bill is less than the education cost.)

Just so you have an idea of the expense, tuition is currently a little over $50K per year.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

Full tuition is set tuition not the cost to educate a child.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:54 am

amother wrote:

Full tuition is set tuition not the cost to educate a child.

. If that's your belief, then you're not one of the people who agree with OP. I'm more interested in whether OP and those who agree with her "cost philosophy" of tuition would also agree when the same philosophy would require them to pay more, not less, than the billed amount.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:29 am

amother wrote:

OP doesn't have a cost philosophy. She doesn't want to pay her money to educate other children. Paleeze!

OP will point out the school already had money and she wants to save money. She wants anyone else to pay.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:38 am

amother wrote:

The endowment is comprised of and kept up with private donations. In other words, tzedakah. OP feels that those who pay less than tuition but more than the education costs should not consider themselves tzedakah recipients because they cover all of their individual child's costs. In the school I attended, full tuition payers who do not make additional hefty donations would have to consider themselves the beneficiaries of tzedakah under OP's reasoning. At least, that is how it looks to me.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:46 am

amother wrote:

Most good schools have hefty endowments. Tuition is what the schools say it is. OP doesn't care if she accepted tzedukah. She would have been perfectly willing, but they don't have family to help them. out. Did you miss that part?

mille

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 6:00 pm

amother wrote:

Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions there. I think it's totally out of line for you to magically assume that it costs $9k/year to educate each child. You have no idea how much each staff member is paid, nor do you know how much maintenance and utilities cost, as well as other expenses not listed nor factored into a yearly calculation.

Sorry OP, make yourself feel better however you'd like, delude yourself however you'd like, but you're not paying full tuition at all and have no basis for the statements you've made.

amother

Khaki

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 6:30 pm

mille wrote:

While I'm making assumptions let me Make one more: A yeshiva will typically charge in tuition more than they actually need in order to compensate for those that pay very little. So if my son's yeshiva officially charges 11.5k, I think its reasonable to assume the actual cost is a few thousand lower.