Is anybody in this category with regard to tuition?

causemommysaid

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:14 pm

amother wrote:

What do you want to hear?

Sure, go ahead, have your child educated for free while you save up for your cushy retirement. Who is your priority here, your child? The next generation of Torah observant jews? Or your nice retirement villa with a wet room?

Sure, put all your purchases on a credit card and then declare bankruptcy. Get theb ank to pay for your lifestyle choices, that is what the laws are there for.

Sure, work out with your brilliant brain and inside knowledge of the financial accounts of the school your ex bank paid for. Then complain that there is a discrepancy. Maybe it is your math that is wrong (hint, bankruptcy anyone) and not the school.

Whatever, this is imamother, the source of all self justification of low and dishonest behavior in the name of Judaism. It sicken me, all of it.

saving for retirement is called being fiscally responsible so you don't end up as a burden to your children who are paying for their own kids to go to school.

pause

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:28 pm

Maya said it. No need to add anything else.

You asked if it's called full tuition. You got the answer that it isn't. You didn't like the answer. So you argued why you believed it IS full tuition. Which is what got you the bashing.

I will repeat what I posted on that thread. Is it your conscience that's bothering you here? The school can do what they want and ask what they want. You will do what you need to do, hopefully asking a shaila about what your obligations are when things aren't so clear-cut.
Why the discussion? Why the need to label it? It seems like you feel guilty about not paying full tuition so you want other people to pat you on your back for being fiscally responsible and paying what you consider full tuition. And it's not happening. So you start another thread. Brilliant.

amother

Wine

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:41 pm

I was in a situation like this, though at a somewhat younger age.

Liquidated a business during 2008 retail crash, no savings, yes debts, no family to help out, no retirement money etc.

Oh, and we were young immigrants striving to get on our own feet.

Barely making ends meet, meaning paying rent, bills, diapers and basic food.
Not buying clothing or shoes, and such "luxuries" as liquid body wash - you get the picture.

Was paying full tuition until the income went down absolutely unbearably, and full amount didn't fit into the bare-bones budget any longer.

Went to shool to ask for a temporary discount.

(I knew from someone that discounts were being given to people in that school, one acquaintance shared that he was being very insistent with the administrator, showing him mortgage bills etc, and was getting around 30% discount, iirc.)

I was hoping to get some temp relief. The admin asked if family could help, (no, Baruch HaShem we didn't have to help them; and my dh was a yesom altogether. The admin faked compassion and said "oy").

Then he told me a sorry story of a family in foreclosure that had been with school for many years, and that he had a kinda mora obligation to keep them in school. (I'm not sure if I explained the reason I wasn't in foreclosure was that I didn't own any property! Also, how does it help that I now knew of another family in distress?? It would make my miserable income go up?)

Then ...
he offered to kick my kid out of school!!

Well, suggested that I pull her out- to be exact.

I was such a meek idiot that I didn't even ask him how he could do that.
Being a practical person, I only thought to ask how that would help him.

Listen to the genius answer: he would kick out a few other kids (sorry, the parents would pull them out) and then fire ("let go") the assistant - in the middle of the school year no less!

Mind boggling.

Now the question is, to support your reasoning in the other thread, would I not be paying my kid's tuition when the amount was less than the inflated "full" tuition? Of course. The surcharge had been going to cover that acquaintance's mortgage or pension fund, or that family in default, or the admins salary. Having that encounter with him, I'm certain he was working for muchmuchmuch more than "nonprofit" salary.

Thank you for letting me vent, it happened quite a few years ago, and we're no longer at that school but whenever I remember that- it still hurts.

Oh, and he gave us a tiny discount on the end, one month free. Thanks much.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:41 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

saving for retirement is called being fiscally responsible so you don't end up as a burden to your children who are paying for their own kids to go to school.

The problem is the schools must have money to run today. The school can't afford to give her a scholarship so she can save for retirement.

Perhaps her plan can be when her kids graduate she can then put all the money she would otherwise pay in tuition away at that point. You can make up a lot of ground that way. I can put away an additional $35,000 a year. There are other alternatives than the over dramatic "burden".

Someone else can decide there is something they need like a relaxing vacation or to see family half a world away. The schools must decide between salary for staff or an increased standard of living for the families that can afford tuition. If you want to give everyone the opportunity to put away money then where is the budget shortfall going to come from?

L K

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:45 pm

pause wrote:

And why do you have to jump on the poster on this thread as well? All opinions regarding the other thread can be posted there.

Clearly, the subject of this thread is different from the other one.

Let her be and find out who is in the same boat and how they are handling it.

Do we now need a safe haven for those screwed up by the system and looking for the way out while remaining honest and preserving their dignity? No, let's pounce on them and add insult to injury.

amother

Wine

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 9:56 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with your reasoning. In theory.

However, I have recently begun to suspect that some of those who get discounts for being in certain occupations or for being "unable" to pay in full are at the same time paying off mortgages,sometimes in multiple homes, buying their kids fashionable clothing, traveling etc. or their families are paying off their homes, whatever the case may be.

While some of those paying full-full tuition can't afford the basics. Probably, we don't know "the works", or who is permitted to apply for a discount, and who is expected by the system to pay in full. It could be I'm ignorant and therefore pay in full, or arrogant wishing to feel I can afford full tuition, while really can't and have to apply for a discount and save the difference. I can't judge, I really don't know the system, I'm very much an outsider.

Signed, happy to have been "able" to pay in full for the most of years so far, bli ain hara, however, not sure any longer if I'm being foolish. It's just my upbringing was that it wouldn't even come to my mind to bargain with education providers, be they schools or tutors. In my family they are considered almost sacred ))).

amother

Brunette

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:08 pm

amother wrote:

Oh, and saving does not necessarily have to do with retirement.

There may be emergencies, medical and others, unforeseen expenses like moving, anticipated large expenses like tefillin for bar mitzvah boys, medical expenses, periods of low income etc.

So it's not that it's normal to live with 0 in your account until your kids are out of school.

OP wasn't talking about current emergencies or abnormal expenses like tefillin. She wanted money for retirement.

Ironically, some amothers and OP are ok with taking charity now to avoid possible charity decades in the future.

pause

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:19 pm

L K wrote:

OP herself brought it up, in her second post on this thread. So, no, it's not so clear that the subject of this thread is different than the other one.

Oh, and btw, she didn't ask for how people are handling it. You inserted that. She just asked who else is in her category which seems like asking for the pat-on-the-back rather than what should I do.

And another thing, if you know me from Imamother, you'd know I'm not a poster who jumps on others. But when people delude themselves and then justify their delusions in further posts, that gets to me. At least be honest with yourself.

amother

Wine

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:53 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry but you're twisting it badly.

When I was paying reduced tuition in that rotten place - I was not taking charity, rather still subsidizing other families who had more guts, pull or chutzpah that kept them at school with little or no tuition, with a much bigger discount than what I was ungraciously given.

And a mortgage paying family getting a break I'm certain was not an exception there rather a rule.

Give me a break. Which charity?
An administrator then should have said were keeping your child and will look for someone to sponsor, or fundraise for your kid or whatever.

Ain't no charity there don't delude yourself and don't accuse those who put their kishkes out and pay every last penny to their children's schools.

I'm not saying though they don't collect or accept charitable contributions, but It is somehow a parallel universe (meaning they don't intersect) to what's going on btw administration and those parents who fall on hard times.

amother

Wine

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 10:58 pm

amother wrote:

If the schools can afford to educate YOUR child and allow you to save money then so be it. Your school told to they can't.

I worked for a school last year and was not paid for the entire year. I would not like knowing I wasn't paid because the school was allowing parents to save money on my back. I have a friend who hasn't been paid for work she did 8 years ago.

Could it be it was not the parents who were saving a little but parents who were doing some radically different things with their "discount" money?..

amother

Orange

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 11:02 pm

I just wanted to add my vent and present the different angles.

I live in Brooklyn and I see many kids in the street dressed in designer clothes from head to toe
The Pesach hotels are all sold out, and I saw advertisements for a new trend-Shabbos Chanukah.
Bugaboos and $200 carriage buntings are the norm.
On these people the school has to be tough and get them to give their share. If they are not filthy rich , then they can choose to pay tuition or use the money to buy more and more? Furthermore, by raising the standard they are ensuring that others are also spending money instead of paying tuition. The school figures that they'd rather the Rebbes should be paid on time (and the administrators could buy some more fancy houses with their cut, so they are aggressive with the tuition collection. Anyone who lives without wasting their money on all these expensive unnecessary materialistic things, should have a break so that they can at least have some money to spend on stuff that they need and build themselves up a normal life.

If the op is comfortable but feels that tuition is preventing her from having more spending/saving money then she could home-school her children. If she is happy to have them out and cared for then she should pay happily.
I think it's more important for a child to get a good education than all the materialistic things money can buy such as a nicer home or clothing.

For those of you that had to sell your silver and go into debt, my heart cries for you. You are very strong people. This is a very broken system which has to be fixed. by putting some of that money that goes to waste every year on vacations, sheitels ect by the wealthy, into the yeshiva system.

amother

Wine

Mon, Nov 16 2015, 11:03 pm

amother wrote:

There was no need to ask one. Our other choice was keeping our kids home.

I commiserate. And wish you shefa beruchnius uvegashmius. You should have nachas from all your children.

I was once asked by an innocent teenager who heard part of my rant if I should maybe sell my engagement ring to pay for school. I seriously laughed, because that probably would have bought me less than a month of tuition. Gosh am I reliving that nightmare now that I'm remembering all that.